Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Littoral Combat Ships

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    An interesting and capable design, but she draws 20' and is sort of like a destroyer, we have the AB class, which can do her job quite well already.
    The AB is a 9kt beast :(

    But yes, the Absalon is too big, was just an example. Maybe the Saar 5...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
      The AB is a 9kt beast :(

      But yes, the Absalon is too big, was just an example. Maybe the Saar 5...
      The light surface combatant field is populated by some fine ships, it is interesting that some of the best examples are coming from Scandinavia, they have had a tradition of powerful coastal defense ships for over a century - so I suppose it it is keeping with tradition. It warms a naval enthusiast's heart to see all these fine new designs coming down the ways. I do think the time for selecting alternative designs has passed for the USN, they have already "drove the LCS off the lot" so to speak, and they are now going to have to pay for her regardless, so they may as well finish the purchase and collect the ROI. Still, I am sure everyone is watching these new Scandinavian designs to see what lessons can be learned, and what features should become universal.
      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

      Comment


      • You know what I found really amazing about the Absalon class? The cost. The whole program wouldn't pay for 2 LCS...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
          You know what I found really amazing about the Absalon class? The cost. The whole program wouldn't pay for 2 LCS...
          The Danes are pretty special, my Grandfather came over from Denmark when he was 14 and made a good life here in the US - but he always loved the "old country". It sounds like they have a very well run naval procurement process to accomplish building a big advanced ship like that at such a reasonable cost. Still the comparison between the Absalon and the LCS is apples and oranges, they are designed to do different things, of course they can overlap in many roles, but they are not interchangable. Perhaps the way the Danes built her at such a reasonable cost should be one of the first lessons we should study.
          sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
          If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Xtvpry View Post
            What a complacent lot you are!!


            How boring! This guy seems to believe everything the government says.

            LCS is right because;

            1. Gates has been cancelling programs and he would not leave the LCS if it was not going to work, ie Gates knows best.
            2. The LCS will be heavily modified before it enters Service (will it? How do you know?).
            3. The USN always wins and can rely on its secret technology.
            4. The Iraqi Navy was destroyed at it moorings from long range (so no need for LCS anyway)
            5. The Navy knows best

            I would take the Norwegian Skjold (270 tonnes) or the Swedish Visby (600 Tonnes) as my baseline design. Then I would set a limit of, say 1,000 tonnes. I would only use Firescouts not helicopers. That would give you a stealthy, fast, multi-purpose, affordable, brown-water patrol ships and shallow draft naval-gunfire support ship. Apart from being fast, the LCS is none of those things. In a one to one contest, a Skjold would wipe the floor with an LCS.
            Let's say you do enlarge the Skjold or the Visby to 1000t, maybe even 1500t. Tell me, what would the crew morale be after deploying across an ocean, maybe two, for 2 months without setting foot on land, all cramped up in a small vessel like that? How often does a small boat like that have to take on supplies? Would you like to build a whole new class of tenders to support small corvettes like that on long deployments?
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JA Boomer View Post
              With the US Army having now cancelled the Future Combat System program.
              They should have listened to me when i said it was a waste of money and unrealistic when i said to cancel it in 2004.

              Almost every single system idea or concept that came out of the Rumsfeld DoD was a vastly overpriced pipedream.

              All that $$$$$ just pissed away for nothing.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bill View Post
                They should have listened to me when i said it was a waste of money and unrealistic when i said to cancel it in 2004.

                Almost every single system idea or concept that came out of the Rumsfeld DoD was a vastly overpriced pipedream.

                All that $$$$$ just pissed away for nothing.
                Not for nothing. We now know for sure they don't work.;)
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                Comment


                • New LCS news. The good news is that eventually the Navy wants to develop a longer ranged Griffin. As usual the rest not so good.
                  Navy considering big changes for LCS - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times

                  Comment


                  • What does the Navy want?

                    Is it;

                    A) an international Coast Guard Cutter to police international waters and arrest pirates and drug smugglers thus releasing larger more expensive naval vessels - a sort of asymetric warfare ship (Naval equivalent to the MRAP) which would escort merchant vessels around the Horn of Africa?

                    B) a multi-purpose Frigate for blue-water operations?

                    C) An entirely new kind of warship to dominate the coastal and esturine areas?



                    If the answer is (A) then I suspect that you need something like this

                    Google Image Result for http://northshorejournal.org/LinkedImages/2008/08/Coast_Guard_cutter_Dallas.jpg

                    If the answer is (B), then you need something like this
                    Google Image Result for http://www.naval.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/fremm_dcn.jpg

                    or this

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMS_Absalon_(L16)

                    If the answer is (C), then you need something more like this,


                    Visby class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


                    The present LCS design is not suited to either A, B or C. Judging by most of the comments I have seen so far, the prevailing opinion on this board seems to be that the LCS should be more like A than either B or C. I am more inclined towards C.




                    If the

                    Comment


                    • A little about LCS Freedoms travels thus far outside of participating in RIMPAC 2010.

                      Freedom recently arrived in San Diego at the conclusion of a historic maiden deployment to the U.S. Third and Fourth Fleet areas of responsibility. During deployment, the ship conducted counter-illicit trafficking (CIT) operations, making four successful seizures that yielded more than five tons of cocaine, two “go fast” drug vessels, and nine suspected smugglers taken into custody. In addition to independent operations, Freedom successfully integrated with the USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) Carrier Strike Group for a re-fueling at sea, high-speed operations, surface gunnery events, and Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure evolutions. The ship also completed three theater security cooperation port visits to Cartagena, Colombia; Panama City, Panama; and Manzanillo, Mexico.

                      Embarked aboard Freedom for RIMPAC are Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 22, Detachment 2, based in Norfolk, Va., and the first tailored LCS Surface Warfare Mission Package (SUW MP), based in San Diego.




                      *This is old news.
                      Last edited by Dreadnought; 24 Jan 11,, 23:34.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Xtvpry View Post
                        What does the Navy want?

                        Is it;

                        A) an international Coast Guard Cutter to police international waters and arrest pirates and drug smugglers thus releasing larger more expensive naval vessels - a sort of asymetric warfare ship (Naval equivalent to the MRAP) which would escort merchant vessels around the Horn of Africa?

                        B) a multi-purpose Frigate for blue-water operations?

                        C) An entirely new kind of warship to dominate the coastal and esturine areas?



                        If the answer is (A) then I suspect that you need something like this

                        Google Image Result for http://northshorejournal.org/LinkedImages/2008/08/Coast_Guard_cutter_Dallas.jpg
                        Too old, too inflexible, no large helo deck, hanger is too small, cargo bay is too small.

                        Too large and the draft is too deep.

                        Originally posted by Xtvpry View Post
                        If the answer is (C), then you need something more like this,


                        Visby class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                        Too small, too inflexible, no seakeeping ability, low endurance, no hanger.

                        Originally posted by Xtvpry View Post
                        The present LCS design is not suited to either A, B or C. Judging by most of the comments I have seen so far, the prevailing opinion on this board seems to be that the LCS should be more like A than either B or C. I am more inclined towards C.
                        The LCS can do all three, with the navy required 45+ kts and flexible mission modules. Think of it as a smaller Absalon with shallow draft, more speed, but fewer weapons. Why would it need more weapons? What are the expected threats?
                        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                          A little about LCS Freedoms travels thus far outside of participating in RIMPAC 2010.

                          Freedom recently arrived in San Diego at the conclusion of a historic maiden deployment to the U.S. Third and Fourth Fleet areas of responsibility. During deployment, the ship conducted counter-illicit trafficking (CIT) operations, making four successful seizures that yielded more than five tons of cocaine, two “go fast” drug vessels, and nine suspected smugglers taken into custody. In addition to independent operations, Freedom successfully integrated with the USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) Carrier Strike Group for a re-fueling at sea, high-speed operations, surface gunnery events, and Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure evolutions. The ship also completed three theater security cooperation port visits to Cartagena, Colombia; Panama City, Panama; and Manzanillo, Mexico.

                          Embarked aboard Freedom for RIMPAC are Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 22, Detachment 2, based in Norfolk, Va., and the first tailored LCS Surface Warfare Mission Package (SUW MP), based in San Diego.




                          *This is old news.
                          Then promptly blew a gas turbine.

                          Comment


                          • What does the Navy want?

                            Is it;

                            A) an international Coast Guard Cutter to police international waters and arrest pirates and drug smugglers thus releasing larger more expensive naval vessels - a sort of asymetric warfare ship (Naval equivalent to the MRAP) which would escort merchant vessels around the Horn of Africa?

                            B) a multi-purpose Frigate for blue-water operations?

                            C) An entirely new kind of warship to dominate the coastal and esturine areas?



                            If the answer is (A) then I suspect that you need something like this

                            Google Image Result for http://northshorejournal.org/LinkedI...ter_Dallas.jpg

                            If the answer is (B), then you need something like this
                            Google Image Result for http://www.naval.com.br/blog/wp-cont.../fremm_dcn.jpg

                            or this

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMS_Absalon_(L16)

                            If the answer is (C), then you need something more like this,


                            Visby class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


                            The present LCS design is not suited to either A, B or C. Judging by most of the comments I have seen so far, the prevailing opinion on this board seems to be that the LCS should be more like A than either B or C. I am more inclined towards C.


                            All interesting ships, though the cutter is almost 50 yrs old, the new NSC is probably a better ship to use in this slot
                            National Security Cutter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                            The Abalson and Fremm are both fine modern frigates.

                            I have to disagree about the 640 ton Visby, it is armed with just a 57 mm gun, the fully equipped version is due in a couple years. It is too small, way over advertised - "99% invisible", with that mast and those railings? It is built of light weight plastic that is conductive, insulating, fireproof, stronger than steel, and more. IMO, it would be very vulnerable to battle damage, would not have the range, seaworthiness, endurance or the capacity required by the USN. It has a place for a helicopter to land, but no facilities to operate even one consistently. An LCS would easily handle a Visby or two as they are today. The Visby is a defensive ship, designed to protect its own littorals - patroling for several days at a time, with land based air support and submarines supporting it and it is less deployable today than the LCS. IMO, the USN doesn't need the Visby at all.
                            Last edited by USSWisconsin; 25 Jan 11,, 00:37.
                            sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                            If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                              Then promptly blew a gas turbine.
                              Yeah it happens. It's probably not the only thing that broke either. Your point outside of criticism?
                              Last edited by Dreadnought; 25 Jan 11,, 00:40.
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                                Then promptly blew a gas turbine.
                                Thats just a part on the ship, it isn't the ship itself, the ship also made it home under her own power and was never in danger, demonstrating the soundness of her design. Being a new ship could be a factor, if so they will correct the issue, or it could have been a bad turbine, which would have failed where ever it was used. If you had built a boat and then the engine failed -would you blame the boat or the engine?
                                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X