I enjoy the Frigate/Cruiser banter, but I think we have wandered off topic (LCS).
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Originally posted by Hoss View PostPick your poison!
Very interesting, nice work, do you have specs on these? These look like battlecruisers alright.
Fine modern gun ship design exercises, I don't think the USN is looking for ships like these, but they are a lot of fun to design and discuss.
Perhaps you should start a new thread for this, so this one can stay on track.
Alternately this thread might be appropriate:
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/nav...ruisers-2.htmlLast edited by USSWisconsin; 23 Dec 10,, 00:12.sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
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Here's my proposal for a combat/spec opps geared LCS. I'll try to contain costs, and not turn them into mini-cruisers. I will also try to use current USN systems (with one exception):
24 ESSM
1 21-cell RAM
8 Harpoon (or similar)
1 Vulcan
2 Bushmaster
1 Oto Super Rapid 76mm (I believe the US uses the older model?)
2 single ASW torpedo tubes
hangar room for 2 Seahawks or equivalent weight/volume of UAVs or other helis.
room for high-speed boats for SEALS, etc.
4000 mile range at cruise speed, 32 knot top speed.
IMHO, this would allow for good self-defense capacity, while still being able to kill ships at a good distance. The "Super Rapido" has far more capability to provide a good measure of fire support, while being very usefull for ASuW/AAA, than the 57mm. The Bushmaster is allready used in the San Antonio-class, so the only new weapons system (for the USN) is the Super Rapido. As for sensors, I'll admit I have no idea on specific models, so assume a good set of ASuW/AAA systems, without going into AEGIS territory. ASW-wise, and since it's not an ASW version, I think it could do with just a hull-mounted sonar.
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Originally posted by jlvfr View PostHere's my proposal for a combat/spec opps geared LCS. I'll try to contain costs, and not turn them into mini-cruisers. I will also try to use current USN systems (with one exception):
24 ESSM
1 21-cell RAM
8 Harpoon (or similar)
1 Vulcan
2 Bushmaster
1 Oto Super Rapid 76mm (I believe the US uses the older model?)
2 single ASW torpedo tubes
hangar room for 2 Seahawks or equivalent weight/volume of UAVs or other helis.
room for high-speed boats for SEALS, etc.
4000 mile range at cruise speed, 32 knot top speed.
IMHO, this would allow for good self-defense capacity, while still being able to kill ships at a good distance. The "Super Rapido" has far more capability to provide a good measure of fire support, while being very useful for ASuW/AAA, than the 57mm. The Bushmaster is already used in the San Antonio-class, so the only new weapons system (for the USN) is the Super Rapido. As for sensors, I'll admit I have no idea on specific models, so assume a good set of ASuW/AAA systems, without going into AEGIS territory. ASW-wise, and since it's not an ASW version, I think it could do with just a hull-mounted sonar.Last edited by USSWisconsin; 23 Dec 10,, 17:46.sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
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Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post(I'd like four or even six single mount Bushmasters to deal with a swarm attack). When you say Vulcan do you mean Phalanx CIWS?
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Originally posted by Hoss View PostWhat the hell do we need to do with 35+ knots....am I going to outrun missiles, aircraft or ordinance? Only thing your sure do at that speed is get torpedoed or hit a mine. YMMV
Higher speed may enable a faster pace of operational manoever, reducing the available time for the opponent to Observe, Orient, Decide, and (re-)Act, reference to Boyd's OODA loop.Last edited by JRT; 23 Dec 10,, 18:37..
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Originally posted by jlvfr View PostHere's my proposal for a combat/spec opps geared LCS. I'll try to contain costs, and not turn them into mini-cruisers. I will also try to use current USN systems (with one exception):
24 ESSM
1 21-cell RAM
8 Harpoon (or similar)
1 Vulcan
2 Bushmaster
1 Oto Super Rapid 76mm (I believe the US uses the older model?)
2 single ASW torpedo tubes
hangar room for 2 Seahawks or equivalent weight/volume of UAVs or other helis.
room for high-speed boats for SEALS, etc.
4000 mile range at cruise speed, 32 knot top speed.
IMHO, this would allow for good self-defense capacity, while still being able to kill ships at a good distance. The "Super Rapido" has far more capability to provide a good measure of fire support, while being very usefull for ASuW/AAA, than the 57mm. The Bushmaster is allready used in the San Antonio-class, so the only new weapons system (for the USN) is the Super Rapido. As for sensors, I'll admit I have no idea on specific models, so assume a good set of ASuW/AAA systems, without going into AEGIS territory. ASW-wise, and since it's not an ASW version, I think it could do with just a hull-mounted sonar.Last edited by gunnut; 23 Dec 10,, 19:22."Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by jlvfr View PostYep, the CIWS. And I didn't put in more Bushmaster-class weapons because of the Super Rapido. That mount has a ROF of up to 120 rounds, with a max range of 30kms. The Bushmasters are just a back up :)"There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge
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Originally posted by Gun Grape View PostI think the problem is that all these ideas are based on what YOU would like to see as the LCS mission. Not what the Navy see's it as.sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
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Originally posted by Stitch View PostI'm thinking a Goalkeeper and maybe some SeaRAM would be more useful; the Phalanx is actually reaching the end of it's practical development cycle (meaning some threats have evolved beyond the ability of the Phalanx to be effective).sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
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I chose the Vulcan because I wanted to keep costs down by using current USN systems as much as possible. I too feel the Goalkeeper is far superior. As for the Harpoon, I wanted to give the LCS some longer range anti-ship capacity than the guns, and the USN has no other weapon (or am I wrong?), and the Seahawks have no SSM...
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Originally posted by jlvfr View PostI chose the Vulcan because I wanted to keep costs down by using current USN systems as much as possible. I too feel the Goalkeeper is far superior. As for the Harpoon, I wanted to give the LCS some longer range anti-ship capacity than the guns, and the USN has no other weapon (or am I wrong?), and the Seahawks have no SSM...
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