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German Navy Changes

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  • #76
    We have a proper visualization for MKS180 finally:

    Click image for larger version

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    Main change from 2017 stats post is the official "10,000 tons displacement".


    • #77
      Seeing the old thread I have 2 questions:

      1. Was the Sachsen repaired and returned to service?

      2. Have the RAMs been used anywhere operationally?
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain


      • #78
        Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
        Was the Sachsen repaired and returned to service?
        Was repaired during yard time in the first half of 2019 which had been scheduled to refurbish interiors of the ship anyway.

        Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
        Have the RAMs been used anywhere operationally?
        In the sense of firing on hostile missiles? Don't think so.

        Offhand German maneuvers in the past have at least included firings against live Kormoran 2 missiles deployed by Tornado aircraft, possibly against MM40 Exocet too.


        • #79
          Originally posted by kato View Post
          • exercising an option to fully replace the three current 3,000-ton multipurpose ships used for the North Sea by the Coast Guard's Central Command for Maritime Emergencies with three new 5,000-ton ships.

          Click image for larger version

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          Role of these ships is to respond to maritime emergencies, in particular with oil spills, anywhere within German territorial waters within two hours.

          • equipped with full NBC citadels and five remote-controlled watercannons for firefighting; engines for the new ships are LNG since diesels do choke on fumes
          • carry heavy oil recovery equipment incl. tanks for 1,000 tons recovered chemicals (they'll also have ground terminals for the Do-228LM oil spill patrol aircraft onboard)
          • run as heavy ocean tugs (bollard pull of 145t) to assists large ships with broken machinery
          • carry and deploy buoys and other similar equipment
          • can act as icebreakers (ice class IA)
          • are used for maritime law enforcement, including by helicopter

          Accomodation is for 16 crew plus 34 mission personnel. Planned displacement is somewhere around 7,000 tons full load - they're 5,200 tons empty. To commission 2023-2025.

          Operational use is sorta along the lines of a USCG Juniper class ship on heavy steroids, with the firefighting added on top.


          • #80
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain


            • #81

              Commissioning of second F125 class frigate F223 Nordrhein-Westfalen, two months ago, held under Covid conditions.

              Notable: 100 km range for the 127mm Vulcano against land targets explicitly mentioned.

              Also quite a lot of interesting inside and closeup shots, incl. deckside armament, boat bays, machinery room and cabins.


              • #82
                That is a nice ship. Trade one for five of our LCS? No, well worth a try.


                • #83
                  F222 Baden-Württemberg, the first F125, on a port visit in Stockholm in January, drone video - if taken in Germany the video would probably be illegal:

                  F224 Sachsen-Anhalt, the next F125 class ship, on the Kiel canal around the same time early June:
                  Not commissioned yet, noticable from lack of national flag and "civilian homeport" Hamburg marked very small below the F224 on the stern.

                  F225 Rheinland-Pfalz, the fourth and last one, is also complete and on sea trials in the Baltic right now. A bit oddly i can only find Russian videos of her...

                  Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                  That is a nice ship. Trade one for five of our LCS? No, well worth a try.
                  The factor is more like two-and-a-half.

                  2.5x the displacement
                  2.5x the crew
                  2.5x the main gun size

                  ...2.5x the delays in commissioning.
                  Last edited by kato; 22 Aug 20,, 10:06.


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by kato View Post

                    Somewhat interestingly the Interior Ministry has decided to arm the three new 86m OPVs - as one of the last acts of the previous minister before the new government in April. They were also considering a containerized MLG27 solution, but have apparently now decided on a 57mm Bofors.

                    The Federal Police is also getting three new, additional H215 Super Puma for the three ships.

                    Planned look (without 57mm):


                    They're being built in Lithuania at Western Baltija Shipbuilding and then transferred to Fassmer in Germany for final outfitting. First finished hull was towed over in April.
                    The three ships were commissioned last year.

                    First one has now received its weapons modifications over the last couple weeks at Fassmer:

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                    57mm Bofors gun on the foredeck, two pintle mounts for .50 cal MGs on the bridge wings.

                    First German Coastguard ships to be armed since the Federal Borderguard became the Federal Police in 1997. The other two ships are in active service and will receive their weapons outfit sometime next year.

                    The ships are slightly enlarged, extremely automated versions of the OPV80 patrol ships sold by Fassmer to the Colombian and Chilean navies; the Colombian and Chilean ships are armed much the same, using a 40mm Bofors gun on the foredeck. In German service they run with a crew of 14.


                    • #85
                      Rheinmetall got a development contract this summer for a few dozen million for a planned laser demonstrator on F124 frigate Sachsen "soon". The trials were originally supposed to be on K130 corvette Oldenburg, unavailable due to deployments.

                      The laser weapon to be deployed is a 20 KW system on the mount of a MLG27 light naval gun, a cooperation system between Rheinmetall and MBDA. The system was previously deployed for half a year on a K130 for navalization, integration with CMS etc - the trials this time are about firing tests, shooting down some drones etc and a full year of operational use (testing how much maintenance is needed etc).

                      The Bundeswehr plans deploying a 100 kW class laser system on F127 as the prospective F124 successor class in the 2030s currently in concept phase.


                      • #86
                        I know this is entirely wishful thinking and pie in the sky kind of thing. Yet, once in awhile, when I read things such as this new post I wonder what the world could have achieved if every country and leader could simply be happy with their current borders and place in the world. The money saved (maybe DOR has numbers per year) could have advanced mankind so much further. Yep, I know these LSD flashbacks can hit anytime even 50 years later...


                        • #87
                          Click image for larger version  Name:	c.png Views:	0 Size:	374.1 KB ID:	1571672

                          Main difference to current class 404 tenders that they'll replace:

                          - three times as big (30% longer, 40% wider, 50% more draft)
                          - twice the crew accomodation
                          - 2.5 times carried supplies
                          - container capacity beyond containerized workshops
                          - slightly faster (in line with new tankers also being bought)

                          Supply expansion is primarily mandated to support the corvette squadron.

                          The current ships have also extensively been used on solo missions in MIO/presence and humanitarian assistance roles in the last 5-10 years, something seen as a useful capacity to retain.


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                            1. Was the Sachsen repaired and returned to service?
                            Looks like they only assessed the damage in the 2019 yard time and ordered replacement Mk41 modules from LM - which "did not arrive in time to be installed during that yard time".

                            Apparently the electronics are not intended to ... or capable of surviving being flushed by their own firefighting system, hence a full replacement being required (cost around 40 million EUR for four modules). Wait time for replacement Mk41 modules for foreign costomers is several years. Delivery and installation currently planned for 2023.

                            The ship is in service without her VLS - in fact during a longer yard time in 2020 the damaged installation was removed entirely and replaced with a cover. Below screenshot is from a video published by the crew shortly after leaving the yard (just before christmas).Click image for larger version  Name:	sachsen.jpg Views:	0 Size:	85.6 KB ID:	1572788
                            • Outside of the temporarily removed Mk41 VLS the ship is fully functional - a couple weeks ago she completed full functionality tests including weapon tests at sea after her yard time.
                            • Currently the ship is primarily used for training - planned for five months this year. Right now beginning this is GOST - the German-run version of the British FOST (Fleet Operational Sea Training), i.e. certification of full readiness of the crew, mandatory after yard times for reconstituted crews. Germany originally used to simply send ships to Devonport for FOST, but has switched to a domestically run version since the Royal Navy basically dropped training foreign crews in order to have capacities for their aircraft carriers (.. like with everything else in the RN).
                            • Sachsen will be equipped with a laser weapon for demonstrator trials next year which it will carry and operate basically until the new VLS is installed. During this time planned deployment is primarily relatively close to home in the Baltic Sea and North Sea. Will be somewhat interesting in what form the laser (joint MBDA/Rheinmetall development) will be mounted - there have been visualizations of it packed into a RAM launcher hull (replacing it), or as a semi-containerized solution placed near the Harpoon launchers midships. The cleared VLS space might offer some alternative opportunities there.
                            Last edited by kato; 25 Mar 21,, 14:28.


                            • #89
                              The third F125 class frigate, F224 Sachsen-Anhalt, was transferred to the Bundeswehr yesterday. Planned commissioning is in May, after the Navy Arsenal has completed the stuff that they won't have the supplier do - i.e. install cryptographic routines, hook it into the Navy communications network etc.

                              The last F125, F225 Rheinland-Pfalz, is planned to be handed over later this year. Once she is commissioned the F125 project is considered to have reached full operating capability.

                              F222 Baden-Württemberg, a bit unobserved due to the pandemic, performed the various live climate tests early last year, sailing both north of the Polar circle in light ice (in Finland) and south of the Equator (with port visits in Cabo Verde and Brazil) to certify the systems under various conditions for the class - something that apparently not all navies do.