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  • #16
    Originally posted by ajaybhutani
    not in case we get an AESA. As the same radar can be used in LCa directly.furthermore its just 125 planes. Its much more about access to technology than just hte plane
    Unkil sam wont let its hardwareto be fitted on LCA so easily esp items like AESA. We would have to get separate deals for those. Also all the deals regarding yanks hardware comes with strings attached.
    Last edited by indianguy4u; 04 Oct 05,, 14:05.
    Hala Madrid!!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SuperFlanker
      Spares wont be a problem because India will only purchase the aircraft if it gets a ToT and full manufacturing rights.
      including weapons? how about upgrades in future? Russia will not make you problem upgrading their hardware.....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Garry
        including weapons? how about upgrades in future? Russia will not make you problem upgrading their hardware.....
        I think the front runners are the F-16 Blk50+, the F-18E/F, and the MiG-29C. The US planes have better avionics and a larger variety of weapons, but the MiG-29C still has very good air to air and capable air-to ground capabilities. I don't see the US letting India co-produce its aircraft without a lot of strings attached. The MiG-29 is a capable aircraft, Russia will let India co-produce them if they want, and they are cheaper. In addition INdia already has a number of earlier model MiG-29's in service. My bet is the MiG-29.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by indianguy4u
          Unkil sam wont let its hardwareto be fitted on LCA so easily esp items like AESA. We would have to get separate deals for those. Also all the deals regarding yanks hardware comes with strings attached.
          of course we cannot reexport the tech.. that constraint is there with even the russians .. But for others .. if americans can let go the nuke tech.. i dont see any problem in AESA..

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          • #20
            Originally posted by JBodnar39
            I think the front runners are the F-16 Blk50+, the F-18E/F, and the MiG-29C. The US planes have better avionics and a larger variety of weapons, but the MiG-29C still has very good air to air and capable air-to ground capabilities. I don't see the US letting India co-produce its aircraft without a lot of strings attached. The MiG-29 is a capable aircraft, Russia will let India co-produce them if they want, and they are cheaper. In addition INdia already has a number of earlier model MiG-29's in service. My bet is the MiG-29.
            ur statement is undisputed only in case the F16's on offer are blk 50/52. ( and same for F-18 E/F).
            Otherwise the AESA for these american planes gives them a much better radar range. And of course the indian order will contain conditions like complete ToT (including AESA, s/w for mission computer, weapons controller etc..) so that new/indian stuff can be integrated without involving the selling party. Its not about the planes now but about to how much extent the americans are ready to let go.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Garry
              including weapons? how about upgrades in future? Russia will not make you problem upgrading their hardware.....
              of course the call rite now is if americans let us do the upgrades or not..

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              • #22
                Originally posted by ajaybhutani
                of course we cannot reexport the tech.. that constraint is there with even the russians .. But for others .. if americans can let go the nuke tech.. i dont see any problem in AESA..
                Nuke tech is for civilian use only.
                Hala Madrid!!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by JBodnar39
                  In addition INdia already has a number of earlier model MiG-29's in service. My bet is the MiG-29.
                  this definitelly promisses better logistical synergies for existing and new aircraft. Especially if co-production is part of the package......

                  Co-production also would give significant learning and building capacities which would help in future designing and producing own light aircraft of Mig-29 class

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                  • #24
                    I would think the competition would be between the f18e/f and the mig35mki. No reason for the blk 60 f16. I would definitely prefer the superhornet over the blk 60. It has some advantages (radar power and rcs are just two) over the f16 blk60. Not to mention that while the US is cutting out f16 productn for its own forces, the f18 e/f is likely to be used by the usn for at least another 20 years guaranteeing support if needed.

                    If they want to play it safe/conservative (which i would hope they do), the MiG35mki is the best choice. Fix it up with a bunch of items from israel/france/india and you truly have an awesome fighter. More than a match for anything that either the PAF or the chinese can throw at the IAF. This way money will also be saved in the short run and the long run. Also, the MiGs could probly be inducted quickly since the IAF already has lots of experience with them.

                    The next move would be to get the MCA and PakFa going as IAF's first totally stealthy systems.

                    I have a little fantasy that the IAF circa 2015 could look something like:

                    190 SU30mki (with irbis)
                    150 MiG 35mki (el 2052 or mini irbis)
                    60 MiG29 - SMT++ standard
                    50 Mirage 2000-5 (mini irbis here too if possible)
                    200 LCA
                    100 Jaguar-darinII
                    100 MiG27-upg
                    20 PakFa
                    --------------
                    about 50 odd squadrons of sheer terror As the mirages/mig 29s are phased out they are replaced with Pakfa (he he). As the Jags and MiG27s are phased out they are replaced with MCA (he he he he)

                    complement this with a bunch of Phalcons and india produced AWACs, A2A refuellers etc and you really have an awesome force.

                    I have similar fantasies for the IN also, I only wish someone who matters would listen

                    Regards,
                    uss.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by uss
                      I have similar fantasies for the IN also, I only wish someone who matters would listen ;)
                      Come on do tell us :).
                      Hala Madrid!!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by indianguy4u
                        Come on do tell us :).
                        nothing concrete, just imagining circa 2020:

                        perhaps a sqd of backfires, upgraded IL 38s + french MPA (all enabled with brahmos),
                        2 ADSs, 1 invincible class, gorshkov (all operating MiG29ks/LCAs/Harriers,
                        2 samaras, 4 ATVs (all carrying sagarikas) 6 scorpene + 6 amurs (all carrying brahmos/klubs) to be maxed out at 12 each,
                        12 destroyer types(bangalores and delhis mainly loaded up with brahmos II),
                        12 frigates (P17 + talwar type),
                        ~ 12 p28 type corvettes.

                        Perhaps convert the Viraat iinitially to LPH role till about 2012 (esp. if invincible is acquired) and then convert it to a musuem on the east coast. I'm hoping IN actually buys Invincible which can operate the upgraded Viraat harriers and possibly NLCAs (after some refitting of course).

                        Like i said this is just fantasy...

                        USS.

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                        • #27
                          But would just 12 destroyers & 12 frigates be enough? We need more surface fleet for Aircraft Carrier groups [Virat, Vikramaditya & ADS] & for patroling our maritime interest.
                          Hala Madrid!!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by indianguy4u
                            But would just 12 destroyers & 12 frigates be enough? We need more surface fleet for Aircraft Carrier groups [Virat, Vikramaditya & ADS] & for patroling our maritime interest.

                            Sorry, was not paying too much attention when I wrote that...hmm let us say about 4 carriers (viraat/invincible for IOR or closer to home, Vikad, Ads 1 &2) but even then they would not need too many more, perhaps 16 of each would be good enough to provide cover for the entire carrier armada in the regions they are expected to operate in. The main naval threat is of course PRC esp. when it comes to power projection (which would be a corollary of the "look east" policy) near the s. china sea. The PRC subs would be difficult and hence the increased number of P28s in my list.

                            I would expect a small CBG to have
                            1 carrier (lot of range and fire power)
                            2 Destroyers (some fire power and Air cover, some anti sub capability)
                            2 Frigate (less firepower, more air cover, some Anti Sub capability)
                            1 P28 corvette (little firepower, mainly Anti sub ops)
                            Maybe 1 scorpene and an ATV as well.

                            I just wish they had some kind of more powerful AEW asset on their carriers rather than the Ka 31. I was wondering if a dornier might be able to do this type of work or even better a SU 30MKI with a dedicated AEW suite? The hawkeye which USN experts have offered for the Vikad would be really awesome! Although I have no idea how they could ever manage it.

                            Rick would probly have a better idea, I'm not so well read on Naval strategies.

                            USS.
                            Last edited by uss; 06 Oct 05,, 19:44.

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                            • #29
                              Hawkeye were rejected b'coz they were not suited to Short Take off nature of our carriers. It needs steam catapult system.
                              Last edited by indianguy4u; 06 Oct 05,, 20:00.
                              Hala Madrid!!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by indianguy4u
                                Hawkeye were rejected b'coz they were not suited to Short Take off nature of our carriers. It needs steam catapult system.

                                Yeah, I thought as much, a turboprob is never gonna clear Vikad's deck!
                                Anyway, i would like to see some innovative stuff with the MKI. Perhaps they can fit it with more AEW/AWACs capability. Something akin to the prowler, only with a more powerful radar. This is a beautiful platform as it has two pilots and tremendous endurance. Plus, the Kuzentsov uses flankers (although not as AEW platforms), so why not the gorshkov? probly have to keep giving data feeds to mother ship however, since i dunno how many onboard computers they could have or how much they could process. I suppose they can have a 3 tiered EW layer using flankers/herons/KA 31s. Come to think of it the Bars NO11M Mk3 seems indeed to have greater range than the E801E which the Kamov uses.

                                any thoughts? anyone?

                                regards,
                                uss.
                                Last edited by uss; 07 Oct 05,, 02:22.

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