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An honest review of chinese capability of PLAAF & indegenoius R&D.

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  • tphuang
    Garry, it's actually su-27sk, not ubk. But anyhow, they are generally speaking not very good fighters. We know that su-27 > su-27sk for sure. As I said however, J-11B uses nothing Russian, so the restriction you mentionned definitely won't be there anymore.

    As for J-10's declassification, no numbers have been released, but it has officially been declared as China's new fighter jet on xinhua and people's daily.

    The same goes to the KJ-2000 AWACS. I'm guessing more details will be out in the next airshow featuring them.

    And I personally don't think pla is stupid to think it can catch up to US in the next 30 years. As for Russia, that's a different story. The technology gap has really shrunk in the last 5 to 10 years to the point where I don't think pla will buy anymore fighters from Russia. Bombers maybe.

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  • indianguy4u
    Ur info on russian AC are always insightful & informative. Whats ur take on recent chinese development of j-10, fc-1, JXX.

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  • Garry
    Originally posted by indianguy4u
    How different is j-11 from su-27. If j-11 a chinese developed fighter than will it be exported.

    Whats the lastest on j-10?
    just a licensed assembly of Su-27UBK.... not even Su-30MKK. Assembly is only 10-15% of the value.... the major value in system integration.

    Important thing to remember - nobody can threaten Russia with Russian aircraft of 4th and futher generation delivered after 1993 ..... there are measures built in to prevent this.

    Probably same with latest deliveries of US fighters. You can not use them against US AF...... there are so many things built in to prevent this.

    In general I come to understanding that China is incapable of challenging air dominance of USA or Russia.... numbers and qualities are against them. They know it, but they are very patient. It may change to their odd in 15-25 years.

    The date of the French-Russian training is not set... nor the regiments which will participate.
    Last edited by Garry; 28 Nov 05,, 08:07.

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  • indianguy4u
    Originally posted by tphuang
    J-10 is now officially declassified.
    Any official report on j-10 then.

    Also did recent Russian-China excercise involved AF of both?

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  • tphuang
    Originally posted by indianguy4u
    How different is j-11 from su-27. If j-11 a chinese developed fighter than will it be exported.

    Whats the lastest on j-10?
    Israelis left in 95 and then the Russians came in to help China with the remaining part of the project. Pakistanis probably provided China access to F-16s, but that was more for the FC-1 project than J-10.

    The earliest J-11A should be the same as su-27sk (su-27 dumbed down), but later versions of J-11A started to incorporate more and more Chines avionics and weapons. I would think J-11A's airframe is probably weaker than su-27's airframe, because the parts we got from Russia were really low grade stuff. J-11B should be using all Chinese made components. The remaining kits we got from Russia are just used as spares right now. J-11B's only similarity with su-27 is the airframe, even that is changed slightly from the knowledge China gained with mkk. The avionics, weapons and powerplant should all be Chinese. Even the number of hard points is increased to 12 to make the plane more of a multirole kind of plane.

    J-10 is now officially declassified. The latest on J-10 is that it's getting mass produced using the new bunch of TVC AL-31FN engines. The production rate could be as high as 6 per month. The plan is to have around 100 by the end of the year to equip 3 regiments. People close to CAC claim that the current bunch is equipped with PESA radar, but who knows really.

    FC-1 prototype 4 isn't going to fly until early next year. They put a lot of changes into it, so it's almost a new plane in some way. J-10's next variant is coming out next year too. They are both designed by CAC, so they probably incorporated most of the changes you saw on FC-1. This new variant will also be using WS-10B.

    JH-7 was the original fighter/bomber by XAC using the Spey engines. We had 2 regiments of those using 90 engines(leaving only 2 spares)!!! The newer JH-7A got slightly redesigned airframe and uses WS-9 engine (better T/W ratio than Spey) and new avionics and such. Not sure whether or not the original JH-7s are going to be upgraded to JH-7A though.

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  • The_Burning_Kid
    So much for allies. Both Pakistan and Israel use our funds to buy our fighters, then turn around and provide them to our enemy. How great. We should kick Israel out of the JSF program for this, since they did provide a lot of help, and not sell any more F-16 fighters to Pakistan that are most recent. Hell, I think they gave China the crappy F-16A/B, which are nothing compared to the F-16C/D. ahahahahhahah

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  • indianguy4u
    How different is j-11 from su-27. If j-11 a chinese developed fighter than will it be exported.

    Whats the lastest on j-10?

    Leave a comment:

  • indianguy4u

    Zhuhai Air Show, China 1998
    By Easy Tartar, Nov '98

    At the Zhuhai '98 Air Show, China again provided a look at several hybrid aircraft such as the Q-5M, J-7M and J-8IIM. All configured for export. There was an introductory display of Xian's "Fighter-Bomber-China-1", or "FBC-1", which is an indigenously produced fighter-bomber design originally designated the "Jian-Hong-7" (JH-7). Today it has evolved as a transition platform aimed at developing a multi-role testbed for precision guided and stand-off weapons, especially anti-ship missiles. It is a tandem-seat aircraft in the mission-class of the European Panavia "Tornado" and the Russian Sukhoi Su-24 "Fencer" with a strong desire to add an air-to-air capability. It has been in development since the late 1980's and finally entered limited service with the PLA Navy in 1994, replacing the old IL-28 torpedo bombers. Since then, it has remained more involved with test and evaluation work then with operational activities. It does provide a good prototype platform to work air-to-surface issues that come to head in the development of the secret Jian-10 (J-10) multi-role fighter being developed in conjunction with Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI).

    Being designed like the "Tornado" and looking like the "Jaguar" helps to put the Chinese development objectives in place. They were searching for a true air-to-ground and maritime strike aircraft that would have more self-defense air-to-air capability, hence the "JH" fighter-bomber designation. But with only the 1970 and 1980 technology base available to them, the designers could only spawn a "Tornado" and not the desired "Strike Eagle". Hence the FBC-1, from the beginning, was a half step, important, but still not the final solution to the evolving requirements.

    The FBC-1 "Flying Leopard" was characterized in Zhuhai Air Show reports as a "multi-mission all-weather supersonic fighter bomber fully independently developed by China." It was designed by the Xi'an Aircraft Design & Research Institute and manufactured by the recently privatized Xi'an Aircraft Industry Corporation, the new form of the old Xi'an Aircraft Manufacturing Company. The JH-7 could be exportable as the FBC-1, but a final configuration was still far from being finalized and it is still undetermined whether or not the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) or the PLA Navy want to keep it.

    The original JH-7 was fitted with a unreliable terrain following radar, probably developed from the RF-4C systems exploited from the Vietnam War. It was designed to carry two YJ-8 anti-ship missiles (ASM) and had good over-water pulse radar modes for ship acquisition. The JH-7 was first revealed on PRC TV during the naval exercise in October 1995. Since then it was reported to have been rejected by PLAAF in favor of their new J-11, the licensed produced Su-27 "Flanker", because the J-11 came with a more advanced weapon system, could carry a larger payload farther and could easily protect itself. The PLAAF was critical about the FBC-1's old technology as well as the two unreliable and underpowered Wopen WS-9 turbofans (license production Rolls-Royce Spey MK202). The FBC-1 did remain as a maritime attack aircraft with PLA Navy and served occasionally as a testbed for the PLAAF. Chinese engineers are still making various improvements on FBC-1. Their efforts include:

    1) the integration of a new family of direct fire and stand-off cruise anti-ship missiles (ASM)

    2) suitability testing of the JL-10 Radar which is an export version of the Phazotron Zhuk Radar utilized with the J-8IIM

    3) development of a new "Blue Sky" low altitude navigation pod that has a Terrain Following Radar (TFR), wide field-of-view forward looking infrared (FLIR), onboard control computer (NPCC), independent environmental control unit (ECU), and power supply (NPPW).

    4) upgrading the onboard avionics to include optically guided weapons

    5) integration of an air-to-ground helmet mounted sight (HMS) system

    6) preliminary suitability testing for an upgraded WS-9 engine or replacement with the AL-31 utilized in the Su-27

    7) upgrading the fire control system to include modern INS/GPS improvements and automated terrain following modes

    8) integrate the LOEC Helmet Mounted Sight (HMS) for use in off-boresight queuing of the PL-9 air- to-air missile, optical aid in locking up air-to-ground and anti-ship missiles, and as a designator of surface targets and points of reference

    The following organization derivation and "name-drill" is important at this time to get an appreciation for the real size of the overall aerospace industry that is presently in place and thriving in the PRC. It is not a dead or dormant industry, it is fully manned with a dozen production lines pumping out airframes, engines, and helicopters and still developing advanced prototypes that are now more and more influenced by western high-tech hybridization.

    The organization structure of the China Aviation Industry (CAI) is large and complex. The CAI employs over half a million trained designers, engineers, technicians, and factory workers. The Xi'an organization is imbedded two levels down in the structure of CAI that includes over one-hundred large and medium sized enterprises, more than thirty research institutes, and seven major state laboratories. The products of the CAI include over 15,000 military and civil aircraft in 27 models, 54,000 aero-engines in 25 models, and a massive amount of manufactured airborne subsystems and avionics equipment.

    The Xi'an manufacturing facility is found within the large China Aerospace Corporation (CASC) that was set up on 06 June 1993 as a modernized and reformed aerospace high technology design and production enterprise. CASC has its beginning in October 1956 when the "Fifth Research Academy of the Ministry of National Defense" was formed as a cooperative spin-off of the "Seventh Ministry of Machinery Building Industry", the "Ministry of Astronautics Industry", and the "Ministry of Aerospace Industry." CASC evolved into eight large comprehensive academies, six production enterprise groups, eleven subordinate product companies, and four colleges. With this comes a network of over 300 enterprises and institutions distributed over 20 provinces, major cities, autonomous regions, and Hong Kong. This includes a workforce of over 230,000 employees, 30% technicians, engineers, and researchers of which 10,000 are qualified professors and senior research engineers.

    After 42 years of production and development, CASC has established what it considers to be a complete systems-of-systems research, design, development, production and testing capability in high technology aviation and space products. There is an aggressive group of modern managers who were trained in decision making and have a rich portfolio of successful program experience. CASC has been reformed and opened up to the outside world through scientific and technological exchanges, cooperative enterprises, and research projects with over 70 countries. It enjoys at this time a remarkable financial backing relationship with the State that in turn provides it with an envious business mechanism for new projects and cooperative programs.

    CASC's forte is in strategic and tactical missile systems, not fighter-bomber aircraft. The aviation side of CASC is more directed at technology development then mass production, but satisfying the needs of the State and the profit motive are always there. CASC's work in space systems has accelerated the modernization of the PRC's new national defense strategic missile force structure. It prides itself in cornering the world market in certain space technologies that includes satellite recovery, multiple satellite launches on one vehicle, launching geostationary orbit satellites, and the development of cryogenic propellant rockets. The military inventory has been modernized for civilian use as demonstrated when the Long March launch vehicle family entered the international commercial launch services market. Enjoy the following breakdown of the major components of CASC, the China Aerospace Corporation:

    1) China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology
    2) China Jiangnan Space Industry Company Group
    3) China Chang Feng Mechanics & Electronics Technology Academy
    4) Sichvan Aerospace Industry Corporation
    5) China Haiying Electro-Mechanical Tech Academy
    6) China Sanjiang Space Group
    7) The 4th Academy at CASC
    8) Xi'an Aerospace Corporation
    9) Chinese Academy of Space Technology
    10) Aerospace Industrial Supply & Marketing Corporation
    11) Space Civil & Building Engineer Design & Research Academy
    12) Aerospace Automotive Industry Corporation
    13) Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology
    14) Aerospace Satellite Application Corporation
    15) Academy of Space Electronics Technology
    16) Space Computer Company Group
    17) Aerospace Great Wall Enterprises Group
    18) Aerospace Trust and Investment Corporation
    19) Harbin Institute of Technology
    20) Aerospace International Holdings Ltd.
    21) Etc….. smaller institutes, factories, and colleges

    The new "corporate structure" of CASC is impressive and demonstrates a complete package of design, management, production, market development, sales, and financing enterprises. It has become an alternative world model for the present merging "up" of high-tech industries. It also demonstrates a remarkable linkage and cooperation with the PRC government that adds to its competitiveness and responsiveness in the world's markets. Having reasonably good products, a sales-active government and military along with readily available financing makes the probability of success very high. The present slowdown in growth can be attributed more to over extended infrastructure development, unrealistically high defense budgets and ruthlessly generous grant funding for institutes, regions, and special economic zones then the general Asian meltdown. The lack of a sensible approach in the funding of military research and development (R&D) and the uncontrolled generous funding provided to exploratory joint ventures has paid off in growing the overall military-industrial complex but it has not brought with it across-the-board technical growth.

    China essentially has no significant foreign debt, therefore the slowdown in the economy may create massive unemployment, but its standing on the Asian financial markets will hold or sink in the top ten with Singapore and Japan. The real change coming will see increased government privatization of the aerospace industry; more control over the lucrative funding pots and new projects will have to rely more on externally financed joint ventures.

    This new model has been so attractive that the Russian aerospace industry, which has gone the way of mini-mergers into Joint Stock Companies (JSC) is trying to follow the PRC example by further developing into cooperative industry-government-investor Financial Investment Groups (FIG's).

    The Xi''an factory is known for its license production of various models of the Russian Tupolev Tu-16 "Badger" medium bomber known as the Hong-6 (H-6) Bomber, the Mikoyan MiG-21 "Fishbed" series known as the Jian-7 (J-7), and the Antonov An-24 "Curl" transport known as the Yun-7 (Y-7). It also produces Wopen version jet engines under license at the Chengdu plant. The RD-3M (Wopen-8) for the H-6 Bomber, the R-11 (Wopen-7) for the F-7 Fighters, and it is the center for the license production of the Rolls-Royce Spey 202 turbofans used with the FBC-1.

    Except for Western engines, the present FBC-1 utilizes some hybrid avionics features in its INS/GPS integration and design innovations aimed at higher reliability and better maintainability. The FBC-1 is essentially China's first indigenously designed and produced attack aircraft. Despite its long development, the first public showing was at this year's Zhuhai Show. Its flight demonstration consisted of a simple routine. There was a steep climb after a 900 meter (3000 ft) takeoff run and two subsequent passes over the airport followed by an immediate landing with a 1050 meter (3400 ft) rollout. At the show it was painted white and bore the markings and fuselage banner notice of China's Flight Test Establishment.

    The FBC-1 is a big aircraft with a gross weight that exceeds 28,000 kg (62,000 lbs). It is larger then the F-4 Phantom and appears to derive much of its design features from the exploitation of the Phantom (Vietnam War) as did the Shenyang J-8II (F-8II) "Finback B". During the1996 Zhuhai Air Show it was estimated that at least 24 pre-production aircraft existed and they were being tested by units of Naval aviation. Seven initial prototypes and development aircraft were produced at the Xian Aircraft Company. The continued delay in a production decision was blamed on difficulties in the radar that required significant modification, problems with integrating the GPS into the navigation and attack systems, choosing the right anti-ship missile, engine reliability, and political uncertainty over just what role fixed wing aviation will play in the new PRC Navy.

    The mainstay anti-ship missile for the FBC-1 is the Ying Ji-2 (YJ-2) with an export designation of C-802K. It is produced by the China National Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation. The program started in the early 1980's and has always been attached to FBC-1 development. The original Ying Ji-1 (C-801) required more range and the solid-rocket boost motor was replaced with a small turbojet, similar to its western nemesis, the French Exocet. The YJ-2 has earned the NATO designation as a shore-based anti-ship missile, the CSSC-8 "Saccade", with an IOC of 1994. The missile is know to have a 165 kg (364 lbs) warhead and low level range of 130 km (70 nm). The C-802K has been exported to Iran and they are involved in their own license production program for a "Tondar" missile clone. North Korea has also received the missile. There are follow-on advanced versions like the YJ-21 that offers range increases out to 180 km (100 nm) and the YJ-22 that incorporates INS/GPS upgrades thus allowing its range to go up to the 400 km (218 nm) and capable of operating against overland targets.

    The PRC has been thinking hard about what platforms would be chosen to support the Navy's offensive and defensive role deep in the Pacific Ocean and along the Chinese coastline. Shore-based, ship-board, and submarine launched long range anti-ship missiles are part of the answer but an airborne platform completes the package. For some time China has been debating whether to buy into a sea-based fixed wing aircraft carrier, such as the Russian "Admiral Kuznetsov" angle deck with its complement of Su-33 fighters, or continue modernizing their bomber force with new or used Tu-22M "Backfire" and/or Tu-160 "Blackjack." The land based FBC-1 represented a force option to this debate and by its existence allows itself to be utilized as a testbed. With reliable anti-ship missiles, such as the C-802 sea-skimmer, and a coastal defense mission, the FBC-1 could be a cost effective solution.

    The impact of the acquisition of the Russian Su-27 on the PLAAF has been very positive. 72 aircraft have been acquired to date and up to 200 more will be produced under license. The aircraft is big and carries a large payload for a long distance. Its engines are reliable and can provide an immense burst of extra thrust for combat operations. It is also being upgraded with a modern air-to-surface weapons capability that would allow the PRC to cancel much of the expensive development work now ongoing.

    The Russian export organizations and Sukhoi are now trying to market two dedicated anti-ship capable models of the "Flanker" family. The side-by-side Su-32/34 that has been evaluated by the Russian Navy and a special version of the tandem seat Su-30 that has been sold to the Indian Air Force (InAF). In both cases however, a version of the 3M-80 long range anti-ship missile is being considered. The 3M-80EA is an air launched version of the SS-N-22 "Sunburn" submarine and ship launched missile produced by the Raduga Central Design Bureau in Dubna. Since China has already ordered the shipboard version with the two Sovremenny Class destroyers (the $800 million Project 956 in 1997) it is a strong possibility that they might consider the air-launched version for a model of the Su-27 that would go to the PLA Navy. The carrier borne Su-33 (Su-27K) is already modified to carry and utilize the 3M-80EA missile.

    BTW the ships will get two quadruple launchers each and 50 x 3M-80 missiles have been procured with the initial buy. The present status has the project in trouble because the Chinese are driving a hard bargin with the Russian ship builders, insisting on a "cash-on-delivery" strategy. They have delt with the Russians before, and the well advertised Su-27 program has had hick-ups in its spares program requiring the Chinese to seek alternative sources with the Ukraine. Note also that at least eight aircraft were destroyed by a typhoon in the fall of 1997. But negotiations still continue for advanced models and products.

    The air-launched 3M-80EA would have a larger engagement envelope than the surface launched versions. The average launch area or regard would be 150 km (82 nm) for the ship board version and it would easily go out to 250 km (137 nm) for an air-launched attack from high altitude. The sea-launched variant maintains a low altitude profile (20 meters / 70 ft) while the air-launched version can undertake a lofted mid-course cruise up to 10,000 meters (32,000 ft) then descend for an attack profile.

    The FBC-1 is powered by two license-built WS-9 (Rolls-Royce Spey Mk202) turbofan engines with each providing 9,300kg (20,515 lbs) of maximum thrust in afterburner. With the advent of the Su-27, there is another production option to swap to the Liming turbofan that has 14,100 kg (31,085 lbs) of max thrust. This would be another last-ditch consideration to preserve the Chinese nature of the FBC-1.

    At Zhuhai, the FBC-1 was not shown to the public on the interior static display line but was parked away from the prying media, under tarps, at the brand new multi-million dollar commercial airport. This facility is the size of San Jose Airport in California but serves only three to four domestic flights per day. Remember the overkill in infrastructure development? As mentioned, the FBC-1 was repainted in a naval paint scheme to honor who was paying the bills for the aircraft.

    Wall-mounted display boards in the exhibit halls relate bits and pieces about the FBC-1. The aircraft was designed at Xi'an using computer-aided design (CAD) techniques with input from the Flight Test Establishment. The actual model and make of the CAD system utilized was not discussed. The tandem cockpit arrangement is organized very much like the F-4. Two separate crew stations with a firewall in between, two individually operated canopies, and zero-zero ejection seats. The back-seat is for a dedicated weapons system officer (WSO). Similar to the MiG-23/27, the FBC-1 has a two-barrel 23mm gun mounted on the lower fuselage behind the nose wheel.

    The latest design has the navigation and attack system equipped with a combined inertial and GPS navigation system. The command pilot in the front seat has use of a Russian derived helmet mounted sighting (HMS) system that is produced in China by the Luoyang Electro-Optical Equipment Research Institute (LOEC). It is a lightweight bracket-mounted system that uses a single small sighting reticle and a pair of cockpit-mounted IR head tracking sensors. The system offers a ±60° azimuth and ±40° pitch off-boresight engagement capability with the PL-9 air-to-air missile. Helmet weight is 0.2 kg (0.44 lbs), is utilized off of the 27 volt DC (20 watt) bus and provides queuing accuracy up to 0°35'. Development work with the GPS equipped FBC-1 is attempting to have the HMS designate points on ground thus having them stored directly into the aircraft's navigation and attack computer as a usable point of reference for future attack or intelligence retrieval. This implies that there would also be some type of associated mission planning system, but no information was available on this potential.

    Since the FBC-1 was shown at Zhuhai and in press photos with Chinese versions of the AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles. The PL-2/3/4/5 series was originally derived from the Russian "Atoll" (AA-2) copy of the Sidewinder and in later years the Chinese added modifications based on their own exploitation work. The PL-2 was a pure Atoll AA-2b. The PL-3 was an advanced Atoll AA-2c with larger warhead and modified forward fins.

    1) PL-1 radar beam rider missile similar to AA-1 "Alkali"
    2) PL-2 IR passive homing missile similar to AA-2b "Atoll B"
    3) PL-3 IR missile developed as improved PL-2
    4) PL-4 IR missile developed as improved PL-3
    5) PL-5 IR missile developed as improved PL-4
    6) PL-6 IR missile developed as improved PL-5
    7) PL-7 IR dogfight missile based on the French Magic 2
    8) PL-8 IR dogfight missile based on the Israeli Python 3
    9) PL-9 IR dogfight missile based on the US AIM-9L

    The PL-9 was a real gold mine for the PLAAF and is the engineering equivalent to the US AIM-9L exported to Pakistan with the F-16 program. For China, it was its first true high Pk all-aspect IR dogfight missile.

    The Su-27 (J-11) acquisition has brought with it the full gambit of Russian advanced air-to-air missiles that includes the R-73/73M (AA-11 "Archer") with its R-74ME advanced variant, the entire R-27 (AA-10 "Alamo") IR/Semi- Active/Active family, and the R-77 (AA-12 "Adder") Active Seeker family.

    The FBC-1 HMS is designed to employ the PL-9 which will give it ±60° of off-boresight lock capability. The Russian R-73 missile could extend that to ±75° and the advanced R-74ME will take it out to ±90°. From this we might want to examine the actual cockpit mechanization and switch actions for the pilot.

    There are really three options if we look at F-4 era technology: (1) pure Russian mechanization, (2) USAF derivative with heavy emphasis of weapons and mode switches on the throttle quadrant, and (3) USN derivative with heavy emphasis of weapon and mode switches on the control stick column. The big difference is, in USAF, IR missiles are step "selected" by station and when selected are essentially boresight only for the moment. Then a "missile seeker head uncaged" switch action is required to:

    1) free the seeker to continue to track an IR source brought to the seeker'sfield of view

    2) allow the seeker to slave to the radar antenna look angle that is already locked onto a target off boresight

    3) allow the IR seeker to search in a predetermined manner looking for IR targets of opportunity

    USN missiles are selected with a weapons mode switch-action on the control stick that combines "radar missile", "IR missile", and "guns" selection with the best appropriate weapon system mode. The selection automatically uncages seeker heads to work with the radar antenna or the pilot's helmet sight. In the Vietnam era, F-4N's and J's with VTAS (visual target acquisition system) helmet sights were employed with Sidewinder AIM-9G and H missiles that could be slaved to the pilot's eye. All of this F-4 technology has to be considered compromised during the Vietnam war.

    Finally we have to factor in the continual presence of Israeli experience and joint venture work, which in many ways favors a USN style for the F-4, Kfir, and Lavi class of equipment. Could Israeli helmet sights be considered for the FBC-1? Of course they could, and it might be so. All of this implies that the Chinese are on their way to employing pilot helmet sight systems. With the arrival of the R-73 missile with their Su-27SK, PLAAF pilots will begin to gain valuable experience. Add the introduction of advanced Israeli helmet sights and their Python 4 missile, then we reach western parity.

    To add another point, the cockpit simulator for the FC-1, an aircraft jointly produced by China and Pakistan to replace the F-16 (covered in report no. 2), the weapons select switches are on the control stick in USN fashion.

    The FBC-1 also utilizes a digital fly-by-wire flight control system whose computers are linked to the aircraft's flight navigation and attack computer. The system was under development for years utilizing prototype Q-5 "Fantan" attack variants of the indigenously produced J-6 (MiG-19) "Farmer". Leading edge slats, rudder-elevon and inboard/outboard elevon integrated servo-actuators are tied digitally to aircraft rate gyros and accelerometers, sensor assemblies and cockpit panels.

    The JL-10A Pulse Doppler fire control system appears to be a derivative of the Russian Phazotron "ZHUK" radar with enhanced air-to-ground provisions being offered in the MiG-29SMT. It has High, Medium, and Low PRF waveforms and can deal with all fighter-bomber missions from long range intercept to radar mapping with Doppler Beam Sharpening (DBS) and air-to-surface attack.

    There is also an internal electronic countermeasure suite that includes passive warning gear, active jammers and expendable chaff/flare dispensers. No other details were made available whether there would be, but as a test prototype anything of course is possible based on European, Israeli, Russian, or American technology.

    Top operating speed is 1,210 kph. (752 mph.) with an unrefueled combat radius of 1,650 km. (1,025 mi.). Maximum fuel weight is 10,050 kg. (22,156 lbs.). The FBC-1 has six hard points for bomb, missile, or sensor pod attachments. Additional hard points for IR guided air-to-air missiles are located on each wing tip with no provisions seen for radar guided beyond visual range (BVR) missiles. Another hardpoint is located at the centerline belly station and is used for extra ordinance or a fuel tank.

    Overall Length: 22.325 m (73.24 ft)
    Wing Span: 12.705 m (41.68 ft)
    Overall Height: 06.575 m (21.57 ft)
    Max Takeoff Weight: 28,475 kg (62,776 lbs)
    Max Fuel Weight: 10,050 kg (22,156 lbs)
    Max External Stores Load: 06,500 kg (14,330 lbs)
    Max Operational Speed: 1.7 Mach at altitude
    Max Operational Speed: 1,210 kph (662 kts / 752 mph)
    Ceiling Clean: 15,600 m (52,000 ft)
    Ferry Range Max Fuel: 3,650 km (1996 nm / 2268 mi)
    Combat radius: 1,650 km (902 nm / 1025 mi)
    Maximum G Load Limit: 7.0 G

    Its wing planform features a floating horizontal stabilizer with a chaff and flare dispenser on the lower part of the vertical tail. The present design attempts to guarantee high reliability and maintainability.

    While the PLAAF and the PRC Ministry of Defense decide if they will continue with the FBC-1, Xi'an engineers continue to work development projects and use the FBC-1 to flight test them. No export sales are expected now but Rick Fisher, director of Asian Studies at the Heritage Foundation in Washington. Suggests that the PLAAF will provide for an interim anti-ship force of around 72 aircraft. The Blue Sky navigation pod will greatly enhance the operational utility of the FBC-1.

    Down the road, the FT-2000, an anti-radiation surface to air missile which was seen in model form at Farnborough 1998, could be adapted for air-to-air use to threaten AWACS aircraft such as the E-3A and E-2C as well as the EA-6B. Otherwise the FBC-1 will have to stand on its flight test merits. Failure to procure an advanced Su-30 or Su-32 would put the ball right back into the FBC-1's court. It is also interesting to note that the aircraft carrier negotiations have concluded with the Russian ship heading for conversion to a floating resort hotel. Not surprising, at Zhuhai everything was for sale.

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  • indianguy4u


    According to the reports of the Jane's Defence Weekly, China has already launched its next generation stealthy fighter aircraft programme, and Shenyang Aircraft Industry Co. (SAC) has been selected to head research and development of a new fighter for the PLA Air Force (PLAAF).


    According to the report from Jane's, development of the subsystems including the engine and weapon suite for the next generation fighter, which was codenamed by the Western intelligence as J-XX, has been underway for some time. Images of the concepts show a twin-engine aircraft sharing some design traits with Lockheed Martin's stealthy F/A-22 "Raptor" multirole fighter such as the internal carriage of its weapons.

    Not too much public information about the programme is available at the moment. The aircraft, which could be designated as J-13 or J-14, is still going through initial concept work, the same stage as the USAF Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) programme in the early 1980s, which later led to the F/A-22 Raptor. Sources within China's confirmed that the SAC is looking at a twin-engine, single-seat, single vertical tale fin design, but other design proposals has yet been ruled out.

    As China has developed close ties with Russia's aerospace industry and has license produced many planes of formal Soviet designs, it can be predicted that the J-XX would include some, if not many Russian technologies and designs. China has been offered a 'joint development and production' of a new fifth-generation fighter by Russia -LFI. Russia has been trying to sell this concept both to China and India for some time, but neither of them has committed fully yet. According to Russian resources, the LFI will be able to counter U.S. second fifth-generation Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).

    Stealth and thrust vectoring are two must-have features in all aircraft being designed in the 21st century. If is not clear that how much progress Chinese designers have made in these areas, and Chinese aircraft industry may have to take Western/Israeli/Russian helps to make the J-XX truly fouth-generation (or fifth-generation using the Russian standards). Once introduced, the J-12's immediate rival will be U.S. F/A-22, JSF and India's MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft).

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  • indianguy4u

    Chinese Air Force Gets New Jet
    Charles R. Smith
    Friday, Nov. 8, 2002
    J-10 Fighter Linked to Failed U.S.-Israeli Project

    The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) is expected to unveil its long-anticipated fourth-generation combat jet this week during the Zhuhai air show. Despite being touted as the first indigenous fighter, the J-10 is filled with a combination of technologies either bought or stolen from America.

    The Chengdu J-10 advanced combat fighter is clearly a product of years of military cooperation between Israel and China, taking much of its design from the now defunct U.S.-Israeli Lavi project.

    The exact amount of Israeli support for the J-10 project is debatable; however, there is overwhelming evidence that much of the new jet fighter's design comes from the joint U.S.-Israeli project from the 1980s.

    Externally, the J-10 appears to be almost an exact copy of the Israeli/U.S.-designed Lavi fighter. The aircraft is a single-seat, multi-role, delta-canard fighter design equipped with a digital fly-by-wire system for control.

    Chinese engineers, working with Russian counterparts, modified the aircraft to be powered by a single Saturn Lyuika Al-31 power plant. The new power plant, more powerful that the U.S.-made engine designed for the Lavi, gives the J-10 a higher top speed and longer-range performance.

    F-16 Falcon Technology in PLAAF Jet

    In addition, China has added several features that were directly reverse-engineered from a U.S.-made F-16 Falcon jet fighter provided to Beijing by Pakistan.

    The Pakistani F-16, sold to Islamabad during the 1980s, was given to the PLAAF as part of a secret military trade deal between Pakistan and China. In return for the U.S.-made F-16 jet, Pakistan received a deep discount on the purchase of Chinese-made M-11 ballistic missiles.

    The new Chinese J-10 supersonic fighter is designed to take on and defeat U.S.-built F-16 and F-18 fighters that make up the bulk of American airpower. Western sources estimate that Chengdu will manufacture over 1,000 of the delta-winged fighters to replace aging MiG-21 and MiG-19 fighter designs that currently make up the vast majority of China's air force.

    Russian Radar and Israeli Missiles

    Western intelligence sources noted that China has been flying about a half-dozen J-10 prototypes for at least two years, and the fighter is not slated to join the PLAAF until 2007. Prototypes of the J-10 that have been seen were armed with the PL-9 air-to-air missile, a Chinese copy of the Israeli Rafael Python 3.

    Exactly what kind of radar the new J-10 will be equipped with, however, is still under debate. The new fighter was thought to be equipped with a version of the Israeli-made Elbit ELM-2021 radar system, which can track multiple aerial targets simultaneously.

    Russian sources now indicate the J-10 will be equipped with a version of the Phazotron Zhemchoung radar, which has both an air-to-air and air-to-ground targeting capability. The new Russian-made radar system for the J-10 will complement existing N-001 radars supplied to the PLAAF for its Sukhoi SU-30MK twin-seat strike fighter.

    Russian Missile Developed in U.S.A.

    In fact, the new J-10 fighter is expected to serve alongside the PLAAF's most advanced strike fighter, the SU-30MK. The PLAAF's recent acquisition of the SU-30MK from Russia has given China the capability to fire advanced cruise missiles at Taiwan.

    One such advanced missile supplied as part of the Russian SU-30MK deal is the ramjet-powered Krypton. Both the SU-30MK N-001 and the J-10 Zhemchoung radars are designed to support the advanced Zvezda Kh-31 Krypton cruise missile supplied by Russia to the PLAAF.

    Ironically, the Krypton would not have been available to China without the assistance of the Clinton administration in developing the Russian missile. In 1995, according to official U.S. Navy documentation, McDonnell Douglas proceeded under Clinton administration orders to help Russia develop the Krypton missile as part of a U.S. Navy target drone project.

    According to documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, U.S. Navy and McDonnell Douglas engineers suggested a series of "P3I" or "pre-planned product improvements" to extend the range of the Krypton, improve its flight performance and enable jet fighters to safely fire the weapon.

    "The MA-31 [Krypton] target will need [pre-planned product improvements] P3I in order to meet the range and ground/surface launch requirements for the Supersonic Sea Skimming Target program [SSST]. The range of the MA-31 target in its FCT configuration is approximately 15 nm [nautical miles] at low altitude," states the 1995 review document.

    According to the 1995 McDonnell Douglas review, one "extended range option" given to the Russian contractor Zvezda "adds an auxiliary fuel tank, a reduced drag nose cone, changes the fuel to JP-10 [which has a higher specific energy content than the Russian fuel], and modifies the ramjet nozzle. The extended range modification is intended to increase range to approximately 42 nm [nautical miles] at 10m [meter] altitude."

    Fatal Flaw Fixed by U.S. Navy

    Another more crucial design improvement given to Russia involved "Ground Jettison Testing" done by the U.S. defense contractor against the Russian missile. According to a 1995 program review document, the Russian-built AKY-58M missile launcher for the Krypton was fatally flawed and could destroy the firing plane.

    "Two jettisons were planned; four completed," states the 1995 review document. "An anomaly was encountered during testing of the emergency jettison sequence. The lanyard which, during normal launch, remains with the launch rail and pulls the Booster Safe/Arm Plug which arms the booster for ignition, is supposed to remain with the target during Emergency Jettison. In three emergency jettison tests, the lanyard stayed with the launch rail instead of with the target. In all cases the booster would have been armed, and ignition could have occurred for any of several reasons."

    "[McDonnell Douglas] MDAC has determined that use of a longer lanyard and slower separation velocity would allow proper operation of the emergency jettison sequence. The problem has been turned over to the Russians for resolution," states the 1995 review document.

    Missile Improved by U.S. – Sold to China

    As soon as Russian and U.S. engineers worked out all the bugs in the Krypton, Russia began to market the missile on the open market. In 1999, Russia negotiated a multibillion-dollar arms deal with China for the newly-improved Krypton.

    In fact, according to the new Russian weapons pact with Beijing, China will eventually manufacture and export the improved Krypton under license to the Middle East and Asia.

    Chinese President Jiang Zemin can take great pride in the giant leap forward the PLAAF has made during his term of office. Without the crucial assistance of his friends in America, neither the Krypton missile nor the new J-10 fighter would have been ready for delivery to the Chinese air force.

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  • An honest review of chinese capability of PLAAF & indegenoius R&D.

    Guys i have started this thread with an intention of getting the real picture of what the dragon has being doing, what have its achievments & also its future plans. Do contribute here with wrt to topic & also no trolling plz
    Last edited by indianguy4u; 08 Sep 05,, 14:49.