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Light fighter showdown in India

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  • Maxor
    replied
    They ended up sticking a GE 404/414 in the mk 1s for now.... It will probably end up with a licensed Indian built copy at some point.

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  • jlvfr
    replied
    They should have done what Sweden and Pakistan did: develop the airframe and buy & modify an existing engine. But noooo, they tried to do everything from scratch...

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  • Maxor
    replied
    Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I don't understand India's procurement ideas at all. I'd think they would focus on mass producing the Tejas mk2 to build up their domestic aviation industry and supply some bulk to their fleet.

    I understand why India would want to buy a high-end Western fighter that is beyond their ability to produce domestically since it would complement the domestic Tejas. But F-16s and Gripens seem more like competition to the Tejas than a complementary force.

    Unless the Indian government is tired of HAL stringing them along and planning to end the Tejas program, I don't see why they'd be interested in procuring a Western light fighter. It can't just be a urgent need for light fighters since HAL could probably supply 200 in less time than the years it will take Saab or Lockheed to build a production line in India and subsequently produce them.

    I don't get it.

    The program has been floating around since 1985 publicly. Thus far HAL has built fewer than 20 airframes including prototypes. The plane as originally envisioned was going to be a low cost competitor to the F-16 think something like an F-20 tigershark. The airframe has essentially 0 going for it RCS wise you can actually view the turbofan blades standing 30 feet in front of it from the intakes. The Delta wing is ugly in that aspect as well. Gripens and Late block F-16s have the ability to super-cruise when lightly armed which is useful in a country the size of India. They have far more advanced avionics that are actually well tested while the Tejas has constantly had failures of its radar tests as well as questions about its ECM and other systems. It is under powered and over weight. It can be compared to Block 20 F-16s. The issue is that it is a decent enough fighter about 20 years later than it should have been with US engines vs the Indian ones it was supposed to have. The grippen and late block F-16's own it in BVR and both have a smaller RCS (the grippen ng considerably smaller) with much better maintenance records. The one thing that the Tejas has going for it currently is that is it a very safe aircraft. It is also getting much cheaper per copy currently.

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  • jlvfr
    replied
    I wonder if they'll try with Lockheed Martin/SAAB what they tried with Dassault? The whole "you are responsible for what we build" bit?

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  • Dazed
    replied
    Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    I don't understand India's procurement ideas at all. I'd think they would focus on mass producing the Tejas mk2 to build up their domestic aviation industry and supply some bulk to their fleet.

    I understand why India would want to buy a high-end Western fighter that is beyond their ability to produce domestically since it would complement the domestic Tejas. But F-16s and Gripens seem more like competition to the Tejas than a complementary force.

    Unless the Indian government is tired of HAL stringing them along and planning to end the Tejas program, I don't see why they'd be interested in procuring a Western light fighter. It can't just be a urgent need for light fighters since HAL could probably supply 200 in less time than the years it will take Saab or Lockheed to build a production line in India and subsequently produce them.

    I don't get it.
    The Tejas is a dated design at best that has yet to meet spec. If even building kits you will be improving you industrial bases/knowledge by leaps and bounds over the Tejas. Building an aircraft is not that simple look at the F-35, Boeing and Airbus latest and greatest all overdue. Japan has been building assembles for Boeing for over a decade as well as building F-4, F-15, SH-60 yet their MRJ is years behind schedule. Killing the Tejas while not cheap you are gaining a more capable HAL aircraft with modern manufacturing win win.
    Last edited by Dazed; 13 Feb 17,, 23:15.

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  • SteveDaPirate
    replied
    I don't understand India's procurement ideas at all. I'd think they would focus on mass producing the Tejas mk2 to build up their domestic aviation industry and supply some bulk to their fleet.

    I understand why India would want to buy a high-end Western fighter that is beyond their ability to produce domestically since it would complement the domestic Tejas. But F-16s and Gripens seem more like competition to the Tejas than a complementary force.

    Unless the Indian government is tired of HAL stringing them along and planning to end the Tejas program, I don't see why they'd be interested in procuring a Western light fighter. It can't just be a urgent need for light fighters since HAL could probably supply 200 in less time than the years it will take Saab or Lockheed to build a production line in India and subsequently produce them.

    I don't get it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squirrel
    replied
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    India, not content with having to currently maintain 5 diferent fighers (not counting Mig-21 and -27...) including the now-being deployed Tejas, and of having ordered a 6th fighter type (Rafale), wants to buy/build another fighter. From another source. I can't even begin to imagine the logistics/maintenance nightmare...

    The fight seems to be down to the Grippen and the F-16, and both companies are ofering to build factories in India! Good luck with that...
    Some how, some way, this is just they way they have done it for decades. Their frankenships are quite the marvel as well.

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  • jlvfr
    started a topic Light fighter showdown in India

    Light fighter showdown in India

    India, not content with having to currently maintain 5 diferent fighers (not counting Mig-21 and -27...) including the now-being deployed Tejas, and of having ordered a 6th fighter type (Rafale), wants to buy/build another fighter. From another source. I can't even begin to imagine the logistics/maintenance nightmare...

    The fight seems to be down to the Grippen and the F-16, and both companies are ofering to build factories in India! Good luck with that...
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