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Congress to look into restarting F-22 production

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  • #91
    Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post
    can we really afford a 6th gen aircraft at the moment though? and can you afford DEW? Hell, they still haven't gotten them onto surface ships yet, were they have a lot more space to work with and a lot less size restraints.
    6th gen planning started some time ago - and they've worked out that it won't be a single frame solution. USAF and USN/USMC will have specs for their solutions but not the same platform.


    • #92
      Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
      I think the timing is such that the 6th gen fighter program will be kicking off production about the time that the F-35 and KC-46 are over the hump and the B-21 is at IOC.
      see previous - 6th gen planning has already started

      Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
      I'll believe it when I see it.
      CAS is capability issue, not a platform issue.

      eg the majority of danger close CAS to SOCOM and sister allied SOF have been done by B1's and B52's

      Forget the USAF 3 star we saw, but he made it pretty clear that the objective is to have any platform able to support, to do that support

      if you look at JSF and its ability to handoff, it means that it can do the ISR and vector in anything with an SDB, PGM or the like - and anything with Link22 can join in. That means ships, tanks and arty (where the arty is wired up for Link22)

      its a bit more detailed than that, but not sure I'm in a position to expand in here.

      if you look at afghanistan as an example, the majority of SF support has been by high flyers, rotary or within pre-mapped interlocking arty from different ISAF elements. The bulk of those support missions would not have been served any better if at all by A10's. CREF my prev re B1's and B52's doing danger close support with PGM's
      Last edited by gf0012-aust; 16 Jul 16,, 23:55. Reason: typos


      • #93
        Originally posted by citanon View Post
        Engine, stealth coatings, internal structure for improved manufacturability, improved signature management, more apertures for sensors, redesigning the cockpit for the f35s helmet, etc
        actually the biggest nightmare is a reharness with some of the JSF capability, and improved modularity. Its just a PITA and from my perspective having been involved in projects reharnessing and digitally upgrading would be just a nightmare due to the inherent design basics within F-22. and there are multiple blocks which are not even friendly with each ioteration


        • #94
          Originally posted by jlvfr View Post

          As for any new foreign aircraft... since they allready have the stealthy F-35, and are building the F-3 (also with stealth features) do they even need a third stealth aircraft?
          because 6th gen includes C5, ISR , acting as a node and a relay within the common combat operating picture and hypersonic weapons - last list I saw had almost a dozen extra discrete capabilities over and beyond VLO/LO
          Last edited by gf0012-aust; 16 Jul 16,, 23:41.


          • #95
            Originally posted by Stitch View Post
            IIRC, Japan was on the short list of countries originally interested in purchasing the F-22, along with Australia and Israel; here's a good (but older) "white paper" on the subject:
            I was in a room with 400 others where Ashton Carter said at the time, that if Aust wanted the F-22 he couldn't see Congress being too obstructive and that he personally had no issue with us wanting it.

            RAAF did an internal evaluation anyway due to local political hysteria about JSF and rejected it for a number of reasons.

            I can't see any compelling reason for getting a magnificent asset if it ends up buggering up our force balance and budget.

            They're hardly necessary when you look at our region and you look at the C4/C5/ISR/INT we have in place

            australia like everyone else runs combat capability scenarios across various military threats even the absurd... I cannot see any compelling reason where an F-22 would make any difference for us.

            Japan OTOH - but even then there are things that JSF brings to the table that they wish they had designed into the F-22. Its just not architecturally simple to achieve and you really have to question whether you want to ingest that huge engineering chore when the F-22 will struggle to do a lot of the 6th gen capability being looked at.


            • #96
              Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post

              CAS is capability issue, not a platform issue.
              The fire Support Community, and the USAF have been saying this since the 90s. Its Congress that we have to convince.

              And thats a hard job. No matter how many Power Point briefings you give about how everyone does CAS/Danger Close on the modern battlefield, not just the A-10, Someone will post a video of the A-10 doing a gun run. Then their eyes will glaze over. And they are convinced that they know what the military needs damn the facts.