Considering the state of the Chinese turbine industry, it seems like the engines in the J-31 are like something the US would have built in the 1970s. Looking at how smoky they are, I can't help but think they would compromise the low observability characteristics of the jet.
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Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostConsidering the state of the Chinese turbine industry, it seems like the engines in the J-31 are like something the US would have built in the 1970s. Looking at how smoky they are, I can't help but think they would compromise the low observability characteristics of the jet.
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I think the WS-13 burned cleaner, but apparently it was dropped for cost reasons/lack of demand.
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Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostDoesn't a big plume of particulate matter light up a radar screen? I would think clean burning engines would be a prerequisite to a stealth aircraft.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-UHWJf0Gk0"There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge
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Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostDoesn't a big plume of particulate matter light up a radar screen? I would think clean burning engines would be a prerequisite to a stealth aircraft.
I looked up some images of other planes with the same type of engine and it seems to be a little hit or miss on photos with and without smoke of the flying craft. Anybody have a better idea on these engines that are able to discuss?
Though it seems to me that not getting a new engine in your brand new fighter that is supposed to have reduced IR and radar signature is a big compromise.
Edit: somewhat ninja-ed by Stitch above so those jets do generate quite a bit of visible smoke regardless of air quality.Last edited by Jimbo; 18 Nov 14,, 18:59.
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I thought the black smoke from jet engine indicates incomplete combustion. Is it possible that the Mig pilot kicked in the afterburner and the extra fuel did not fully burn off?
Talk about black smoke, check out these early B-52s, most likely with J-57 engines using water injection for takeoff performance:
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostDoesn't a big plume of particulate matter light up a radar screen? I would think clean burning engines would be a prerequisite to a stealth aircraft.
Attached Files"There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge
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According to the analysts from Taiwan, the J-31 conducted brief demonstrations at the air show. It went through some basic maneuvers, rolls, turns, but nothing fancy. The J-31 is probably at the early X-35 stage of development. After landing, the J-31 was taxied to a covered shelter, away from public eyes."Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by Stitch View PostAlong those lines, my understanding is that the exhaust plume from the J-58's on the SR-71 actually reflected radar, and had a radar signature all of their own; I'm guessing the RCS of the SR-71, due to the rudimentary stealth measures it incorporated, was probably about the same as the RCS from it's exhaust plume(s).
Although most news reports characterize the SR-71 aircraft as `radar evading', in point of fact, however, the SR-71 was one of the largest radar targets ever detected on the FAA's long-range radars. The FAA was able to track it at ranges of several hundred miles. The explanation offered was that the radars were detecting the exhaust plume.
http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/defaul...0001458639.pdf
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Shenyang FC-31 fighter performance 'leaked' online
The posting on Chinese websites of possible performance data for the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) FC-31 fifth-generation fighter indicates it could pose a commercial threat to Western and Russian fighter manufacturers.
http://www.janes.com/article/54677/s...-leaked-online
So, the engines are only in the "19,000 lbs. class"? That's about half the thrust of the F-119, and less than half the thrust of the F-135; no wonder it has two of them! They sound like they're roughly equivalent to a '60's-era P&W TF-30 low bypass-ratio turbofan."There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge
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Originally posted by Stitch View PostThe posting on Chinese websites of possible performance data for the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) FC-31 fifth-generation fighter indicates it could pose a commercial threat to Western and Russian fighter manufacturers.
http://www.janes.com/article/54677/s...-leaked-online
So, the engines are only in the "19,000 lbs. class"? That's about half the thrust of the F-119, and less than half the thrust of the F-135; no wonder it has two of them! They sound like they're roughly equivalent to a '60's-era General Electric TF-30 low bypass-ratio turbofan.
Also, it's in a much earlier state of development than the J20. Notice the absence of apertures for anything useful.
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Originally posted by Stitch View PostThe posting on Chinese websites of possible performance data for the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) FC-31 fifth-generation fighter indicates it could pose a commercial threat to Western and Russian fighter manufacturers.
http://www.janes.com/article/54677/s...-leaked-online
So, the engines are only in the "19,000 lbs. class"? That's about half the thrust of the F-119, and less than half the thrust of the F-135; no wonder it has two of them! They sound like they're roughly equivalent to a '60's-era P&W TF-30 low bypass-ratio turbofan.
Have we figured out what powers the J-20 yet?"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by gunnut View PostHave we figured out what powers the J-20 yet?
It is supposed to be replaced by the WS-15 currently in development that is aiming to achieve 40,000lbs of thrust.
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Originally posted by gunnut View PostBy the way, 19000 lb class is without afterburner, right? That's still pretty impressive. Gripen's F-404 engine only produces 12000 lb thrust dry yet it's able to supercruise with external stores.
And the next-gen Gripen will be using the F414."There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge
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Originally posted by Stitch View PostYeah, but that's SUPPOSED to be a mid-range engine; the Navy specified back in the '70's when the F-404 was being developed that they wanted a deliberately conservative design for the F-18 because reliability & serviceability are at the top of their list for aircraft engines, not all-out performance & thrust. The F-18 (both the first-gen and the Super) have always been a bit under-powered compared to other front-line fighters, but this was a deliberate strategy to emphasize reliability (very important when you are hundreds of miles from your floating airfield). The F-414 was developed, in part, to remedy the F-404's shortcomings (lack of thrust & SFC).
And the next-gen Gripen will be using the F414."Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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