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  • #61
    oh really, in a few days trials start, keep me posted, thanks

    i DID mention that the MKI is a multi-role, that's why it has "M"

    anyways, in external stoers, they carry same amount of weapons, Su-34 can carry them farther, at a higher alltitude and also employs limited stealth features compared with the Su-30MKI, reshaping of the radome for example

    http://warfare.ru/?catid=257&linkid=1615

    but the question is, will Ameica put the Block 60 forward, personally, i don't think they will, most likely Block 52, i think that the UAE would be pretty pissed, and so would Greece
    for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Dima
      oh really, in a few days trials start, keep me posted, thanks
      sure
      i DID mention that the MKI is a multi-role, that's why it has "M"

      anyways, in external stoers, they carry same amount of weapons, Su-34 can carry them farther, at a higher alltitude and also employs limited stealth features compared with the Su-30MKI, reshaping of the radome for example
      Link for limited stealth features.

      http://warfare.ru/?catid=257&linkid=1615

      but the question is, will Ameica put the Block 60 forward, personally, i don't think they will, most likely Block 52, i think that the UAE would be pretty pissed, and so would Greece
      Well its heavier tahn MKI.rendering teh use of higher thrust engine as not much orf a change in TWR.About farhter with in flight refuelling its nearly no edvantage for iover MKI for induction by IAF.
      Yes the altitude is a good advantage but yes a bomber dsnt need to fly high to bomb but to save itsel ffrom the ones which cannot fly taht high . It dsnt help in land attack but in A2A.
      Now i'll give u a reason taht makes MKI better than su34 for A2G. Thats because a air launched version of brahmos is in progress and will be ready in 2 years to be put on MKI. Well Brahmos is a 300km range cruise missile with mach 3 speed and capable of attacking sea and land based targets.

      Comment


      • #63
        link, look yourself, the shape of the radome is flattened, just like the F-22's resemblance anyone? read a few things on it, somehwre it should say that it was a design bonus, because they didn't intentionally mean to give it stealth characteristics, they wanted to make the Radome larger, so that the pilots can actually walk around while flying, and it also has a bathroom, and small kitchen, heck i could live in it

        http://www.harpoonhq.com/waypoint/ar...rticle_021.pdf

        very interesting link, actual size of the aircraft has nothing to do with its RCS

        yes, it's much heavier than MKI, has a longer range though, but it is slower than the MKI, well, 19,800m is a huge advantage, the MKI cannot engage anything that high, also, that is at the maximum of the AMRAAM AIM-120's engagement, thus, making it almost invulnerable to any AMRAAM fired at it, you are forgetting that Brahmos is a combined Russia/Indian effort, thus, most likely the Su-34 Fullback will also utilize this missile
        for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Dima
          link, look yourself, the shape of the radome is flattened, just like the F-22's resemblance anyone? read a few things on it, somehwre it should say that it was a design bonus, because they didn't intentionally mean to give it stealth characteristics, they wanted to make the Radome larger, so that the pilots can actually walk around while flying, and it also has a bathroom, and small kitchen, heck i could live in it

          http://www.harpoonhq.com/waypoint/ar...rticle_021.pdf

          very interesting link, actual size of the aircraft has nothing to do with its RCS

          yes, it's much heavier than MKI, has a longer range though, but it is slower than the MKI, well, 19,800m is a huge advantage, the MKI cannot engage anything that high, also, that is at the maximum of the AMRAAM AIM-120's engagement, thus, making it almost invulnerable to any AMRAAM fired at it, you are forgetting that Brahmos is a combined Russia/Indian effort, thus, most likely the Su-34 Fullback will also utilize this missile
          1. Well how much of a stealth advantage will f;lattenning of radome offer. ??Will it even compensate for the increased size of the aircraft due to increased internal capacity or does better??
          2. Well a fighter like MKI need not climb up as it can see first and fire first.And that kind of advantage works well.
          3. What countries are planning to buy SU34??Not even russians have placed orders for it.
          About the range of the fighter well MKI is good nough to reach the threats we need to consider ( china and paksitan.)What matters is the cost of inducting this aircraft over the advantage. For better range and unknown cahnge in RCS well we will need to get a lot of israeli stuff integrated up in it( as russain avionics suck) to use it . Then gettting the engine fitted with 3DTVC and so on which will cost us a lot and offer nearly not mch of an advantage.BTw its better to buy a few Tu22 from russia for long range bombing rahter tahn SU34. And for shorter ranges MKi will be bettter for it can carry anything russian israeli french indian etc.
          Again u mentioned about the speed. Dont u think its gonna be a big disadvantage. ?? It nearly kills a lot of capability out of the bird.

          Comment


          • #65
            well, the size of an aircraft contribute''s in no way to its RCS, so even if the LCA will be extremely small, it doesn't mean that it's RCS will also be equally small just because of its size, it doesn't offer much stealth, but i think i've heard reports on how they use radar dissipating paint, and that's it

            have you heard the reports of Indian Su-30K's and Su-30MKI's also incoporating radar dissipating paint, i'll try to find a link for you

            "up as it can see first and fire first."
            i don't understand, what's the point, are you talking about it's advanced FCS?i'm just saying that there is an advantage for the Su-34, because being able to go that high is pretty serious, on the very end of the engagement envelop for the AIM-120, giving the AIM-120 a 50/50 chance in destroying this aircraft if fired up on it

            actually, Russia has already bought a few Su-34, inm fact, they have boughht 20 of them so far
            http://www.deagel.com/pandora/?p=pm00428001
            and i believe that the reason why they haven't exported it yet is because they are still testing it, i think testing ends in 2006, after that, it will be available for export to other countries

            you won't necessarily need to get a lot of israeli avionic components installed as Russian components don't lag horrendously far compared to western avionivs systems, in avionivs, Russia is rapidly catching up by coopoerating with Nations like France, Israel, and India, as well as China to a limited extent in the sphere of avionics, so, in maybe 10 years, maybe less, because Russia's IT industry is expected to grow about 20% per year, from now till 2010, perhaps a little bit later

            also, why would you refit the Su-34 with 3D TVC engines when it's only supposed to bomb targets, but this aircraft can also be labelled as a multi-role aircraft because it can attack everything, Sea targets, Ground targets, Air targets, everything, it's Russia's top priority out of all other Flanker variant projects, not even the Su-37 is as important to Russia as this project is

            yes, the Tu-22M3, it's an incredible aircraft, truly, with no analogues in the world, that's why i love it, anyways, let's get away from my love life, overall, it's better than the Su-34 in the ground attack role because

            1.it has a maximum range of 6,800 km and the Su-34 has a maximum range of only 4,000km(a 70% decrease)
            2.it can carry a total of 24,000kg in payload, while the Su-34 is only capable of carrying 8,000kg

            these two points are significantly the most important points when discussing bomber aircraft, how much can they carry, and how far can they carry that, speed is insignificant, because it doesn't give an opponent an advantage unless they can outrun your missiles, if not, then you two are on the same par, it does provide a tiny advantage in WVR combat

            also, another important thing to consider when comparing these two is avionics and weaponry, the Su-34's avionics are slightly advanced compared to the Tu-22M3, because the Tu-22M3 Backfire is 22 years old, but the Backfire can carry up to 10 Kh-15P and 3 Kh-22

            if you look at the amountof different weapons that the Su-34 can carry, you can easily see why i said that it is more of a multi-role aircraft than pure bomber like the Backfire, personally, i love both aircratf, don't know which one i would choose, it depends if i'm looking for a sole bomber, or if it can be a mutli-role/bomber aircraft

            really if you payed attention to my previous link, for the Su-34, if you read the description, it actually tells you

            "The Su-32 is planned to be one of the three combat aircraft types (PAK FA stealth multi-role fighter and Yak-130/Mig-AT light attack aircraft) operated by Russia beyond the 2010-2015 timeframe."

            maybe this is a premature statement, but it could be correct, maybe Russia will infact not purchase any Su-37's, and continue to purchase only the T-50/Yak 130(was chosen over MiG-AT, 300 are to be mass produced), and this aircraft

            personally, i think that it is a mistake, they need a heavy light fighter mix, just like America, T-50 is more of a medium fighter, so i guess it can fill in all the roles, but it would make me feel safer at night if i knew that my skies were being protected by a super heavy fighter, in cognition with the T-50

            just to add, i found out that the aircraft has in-flight refueling, with in-flight refueling, it's range is extended to 7,000km, which is higher than the Backfire's 6,800km
            for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Dima
              well, the size of an aircraft contribute''s in no way to its RCS, so even if the LCA will be extremely small, it doesn't mean that it's RCS will also be equally small just because of its size, it doesn't offer much stealth, but i think i've heard reports on how they use radar dissipating paint, and that's it
              Well size does matter. Thats why non stealth aircrafts like MIG29 are small that the non stealth aircrafts like SU27.

              have you heard the reports of Indian Su-30K's and Su-30MKI's also incoporating radar dissipating paint, i'll try to find a link for you
              Well event the upgrades for Mig21bis have it.
              "up as it can see first and fire first."
              i don't understand, what's the point, are you talking about it's advanced FCS?i'm just saying that there is an advantage for the Su-34, because being able to go that high is pretty serious, on the very end of the engagement envelop for the AIM-120, giving the AIM-120 a 50/50 chance in destroying this aircraft if fired up on it
              Well we dont bomb a place at that much height. Its surely an advantage but more like general improvements in the platform and not somthing exclusively done for A2G.U need to consder the fact that MKI contains better israeli avionics and also is faster. So u really cannot say that what platform is better just because of higher range abnd ceiling for SU34. Furthermore SU34 is not for reconn . so we need something taht can go fast and undetected bomb the place and run away without the enemy being able to react and in case its not able to run away then being able to kill down the enemy defences to make up for it.
              So for running away u can go higher or go faster. Both have their pros ( for running faster u can be out of sight faster. and for higher enemy knows u are tehre but cant fire u.). and cons( u can be hit on by missiles in case u arent able get out real fast. and for su34 u might not be able to go to higher place well in time). So it really needs to be judged before calling one platform/idea better tahn another. I m in favour of the MKI as it is being inducted while for SU34 theer are no confirmed orders yet. And its not even complete.( if i believe in u)




              actually, Russia has already bought a few Su-34, inm fact, they have boughht 20 of them so far
              http://www.deagel.com/pandora/?p=pm00428001
              The link dsnt say taht russia ahs inducted 20 of them or even some orders placed.
              and i believe that the reason why they haven't exported it yet is because they are still testing it, i think testing ends in 2006, after that, it will be available for export to other countries
              Well when we ordered MKI it all started with a test plane checking everything as we added. And its still in upgrades stage with all new taht we can bring up . If it is to be prepaered by 2006. Then by now russians ( if they were interested ) would ahve put up some orders for it but there are no such reports.

              you won't necessarily need to get a lot of israeli avionic components installed as Russian components don't lag horrendously far compared to western avionivs systems, in avionivs, Russia is rapidly catching up by coopoerating with Nations like France, Israel, and India, as well as China to a limited extent in the sphere of avionics, so, in maybe 10 years, maybe less, because Russia's IT industry is expected to grow about 20% per year, from now till 2010, perhaps a little bit later
              1. What is the size of Russian IT industry. ( well indian is 20B$ is sft itself with growth much more tahn tha russian rate.)

              also, why would you refit the Su-34 with 3D TVC engines when it's only supposed to bomb targets, but this aircraft can also be labelled as a multi-role aircraft because it can attack everything, Sea targets, Ground targets, Air targets, everything, it's Russia's top priority out of all other Flanker variant projects, not even the Su-37 is as important to Russia as this project is
              So that it can handle whatever challenge it faces in air and we dont need to accompany with it a MKI for its protection.
              and the same reason stands for why we need better avionics than what russia has/had to offer.We preffered to make our own showing how bad they were.




              yes, the Tu-22M3, it's an incredible aircraft, truly, with no analogues in the world, that's why i love it, anyways, let's get away from my love life, overall, it's better than the Su-34 in the ground attack role because
              The main idea to make a fighter bomber is when we cannot offort bigger bombers . well if we cant(india) then i guess even MKi can do a job with nearly same limites at the same time offering even A2A control in its flight.
              1.it has a maximum range of 6,800 km and the Su-34 has a maximum range of only 4,000km(a 70% decrease)
              2.it can carry a total of 24,000kg in payload, while the Su-34 is only capable of carrying 8,000kg
              About MKI look at this link.
              http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Ai...ecs/index.html

              Says taht the MKI can go for 8000 km with 1 inflight refuelling.The 3000km is for the original SU30K inducted which with single in flight refuelling can go 5200kms. Showing how much more is the range for MKi wrt the normal su30 model. Now i think the range advantage is gone . hasnt it ??

              And yes in later batches of MKI we would be adding more of composites(which would reduce teh aircraft weight and increase its range as we have used a lot opf it in LCA like fully composite wings and further. )
              Also in case somthing good comes in from the exceptional design on su34s nozzle i dont think it will tke time for indians to get the same stuff in MKI's next production lines.. Russian and indian contacts are real good to make taht happen without much of a cost overhead.


              these two points are significantly the most important points when discussing bomber aircraft, how much can they carry, and how far can they carry that, speed is insignificant, because it doesn't give an opponent an advantage unless they can outrun your missiles, if not, then you two are on the same par, it does provide a tiny advantage in WVR combat
              Well the speed does matter as it helps u run away fast .

              also, another important thing to consider when comparing these two is avionics and weaponry, the Su-34's avionics are slightly advanced compared to the Tu-22M3, because the Tu-22M3 Backfire is 22 years old, but the Backfire can carry up to 10 Kh-15P and 3 Kh-22
              Well taht would need an analysis about whats cheaper 1 TU22 or 4 SU34( as they both have similar ranges.



              if you look at the amountof different weapons that the Su-34 can carry, you can easily see why i said that it is more of a multi-role aircraft than pure bomber like the Backfire, personally, i love both aircratf, don't know which one i would choose, it depends if i'm looking for a sole bomber, or if it can be a mutli-role/bomber aircraft
              Well we have a MKI for that which offers a bettter multi role in terms of all avaialable russian issraeli and western A2A and A2G weaponry which is much more tahn what SU34 can offer.
              And since theres a lot of difference between the the MKI's avionics and SU34. so porting Brahmos on SU34 and MKI are different and need a differetn effort. And the porting with sU34 will take place only if RUAF intends to induct Brahmos and SU34 both. Which is still not declared. For exports the missiles will be inducted in case the customer wants and will need a consent of india. So someone like china will not get sa SU34 with brahmos.decreasing its ability.




              really if you payed attention to my previous link, for the Su-34, if you read the description, it actually tells you

              "The Su-32 is planned to be one of the three combat aircraft types (PAK FA stealth multi-role fighter and Yak-130/Mig-AT light attack aircraft) operated by Russia beyond the 2010-2015 timeframe."
              1. Well first when was that page written.
              2. if it is scheduled to beover in 2006. there should have been the induction orders placed.

              maybe this is a premature statement, but it could be correct, maybe Russia will infact not purchase any Su-37's, and continue to purchase only the T-50/Yak 130(was chosen over MiG-AT, 300 are to be mass produced), and this aircraft
              Well tahts the point it might not and by the time SU37 is ready russia will get only 3 years ( in APOK-FA goes really well) before the PAK-Fa is avaialble and then economics will force it to go for PAK-FA making all the investment for SU34 production as a waste. (russia needs to incude a lot of PAK-Fa in 2010-20 to make the production break even.)


              personally, i think that it is a mistake, they need a heavy light fighter mix, just like America, T-50 is more of a medium fighter, so i guess it can fill in all the roles, but it would make me feel safer at night if i knew that my skies were being protected by a super heavy fighter, in cognition with the T-50
              Well its about what the experts think and not what immature part timers like us who dont know the real ground situation.

              just to add, i found out that the aircraft has in-flight refueling, with in-flight refueling, it's range is extended to 7,000km, which is higher than the Backfire's 6,800km
              MKI goes for 8000km

              Comment


              • #67
                actually, size doesn't matter, look at the link, it even says it in there

                provide me with a link regarding the MiG-21 Bisons utilizing radar dissipating paint, i left a link in the other topic on this regarding Su-27's and Su-30's

                http://www.deagel.com/pandora/?p=pm00428001

                on the contrary, the Su-34(specifically the Su-32FN, yes they have different types of Su-34) can perform sea-surface surveillance, submarine reconnaissance, and mine detection

                correct, not entirely complete, well, actually, this year, it's supposed to be done testing and everything, they already have 20 test models that they purchased(it was 2006, but, more funding=sooner induction) no, you just like the MKI because it's the aircraft that your country uses, don't be ashamed of being biased towards your country, most people are, i am for sure, and proud to admit it, because few things can match Russia anyways

                yes it does, look at the side of my link, states nice and clear Operators, Russia 20

                oh, shoot, let me check, i think i read omsehitng about this, just wait

                well, i can't find anything, but i believe it is worth something like $12 billion, can osmeone help me out with a link, as soon as i get some information, i'll let you know

                "make our own showing how bad they were. "

                you clearly don't understand Russian avionics, everyone discards them as ****, but they are NOT ****, make your own, last i checked, the MKI utilizes French and Israeli avionics systems

                Indian avionics are still too primitive too be applied to aircraft, better idea to use Israeli and French

                TVC engines are, basically only useful in WVR, in BVR scenario's, they aren't that useful unless you're trying to get out of the other aircraft's HUD

                i believe so, let me check, 8,000km with one-in flight refueling,
                well, the Su-34 has a range of 4,500km, and with in-flight refueling, it has i can't find the range for it with in-flight refueling, did i give it before, wasn't it like 7,800km?

                http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/su-34.htm
                WAIT, just discovered something, it was actually in competition with the Su-30MK for what would be the future Strike aircraft for Russia and what would replace and what would replace the Su-24

                so, are you saying that India will revamp their entire force of Su-30MKI's with a flattened nose?, that would cost quite a bit, you take your relationship with Russia far too easily, it's not as simple as that, you will either have to purchase the Fullback, or revamp your force of MKI's, or make a new designation, maybe Su-34I("I" for Indiiski)

                speed helps you run away faster, NOT from a missile i'll tell you that much, from an opposing fighter, yes, it can get out of it's range, that's why i said that max speed is not entirely witout its merits, there are a few good things that max speed provide

                4 Su-34's or 1 Tu-22M3?, where did you get 4 Fullbacks' from?, actually, the Backfire is pretty expensive, something like $80 million, while the Su-34 is like $35 million, so for 4 it would be more expensive

                "which is much more than the Su-34 can offer"

                there's your Indian biasness again, i wouldn't say much more, as the Fullback is a better bomber/striker than the MKI, maybe not by much, but the MKI is a better fighter than the Fullback, again, not by much, the Fullback still has outstanding maneuverability for a Strike aircraft, Russia can easily reintegrate this aircraft for the customer, and can apply Israeli avionics if necessary, again, all depending on the customer, so, i think that if India became interested in this aircraft(which they won't, because they already have MKI) Russia could refit the avionics with Israeli avionics

                hey, don't forget Russia owns part of the project to, the Brahmos missiles, Russia owns 49% and India owns 51%, where did you get that information, a nation needs the consent of India to get the missile?

                link?

                that page was written in 2005

                actually, Russia just needs 600 orders to make PAK-FA a positive investment, but i still think that this project is necessary for future Strike aircraft, because maybe PAK-FA won't be able to perform what the Fullback can as well

                okay, finally i'm done, boy, hey i got a proposition for you, never thought i'd say this, but i'm tired of debating, i hate staying up until 1 in the morning every night providing you with your endless want for links, ol

                how about we call it even, Su-30MKI=Su-34
                lets be partners, just like Russia and India are

                this applies to all the topics that we've been debating about, i need a break
                for MOTHER MOLDOVA

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Dima
                  actually, size doesn't matter, look at the link, it even says it in there

                  provide me with a link regarding the MiG-21 Bisons utilizing radar dissipating paint, i left a link in the other topic on this regarding Su-27's and Su-30's

                  http://www.deagel.com/pandora/?p=pm00428001

                  on the contrary, the Su-34(specifically the Su-32FN, yes they have different types of Su-34) can perform sea-surface surveillance, submarine reconnaissance, and mine detection
                  Well sorry i rea only the text and missed the side parameters.

                  correct, not entirely complete, well, actually, this year, it's supposed to be done testing and everything, they already have 20 test models that they purchased(it was 2006, but, more funding=sooner induction) no, you just like the MKI because it's the aircraft that your country uses, don't be ashamed of being biased towards your country, most people are, i am for sure, and proud to admit it, because few things can match Russia anyways
                  But again ur claim of it being better than MKi needs to be debated.


                  well, i can't find anything, but i believe it is worth something like $12 billion, can osmeone help me out with a link, as soon as i get some information, i'll let you know.

                  "make our own showing how bad they were. "
                  you clearly don't understand Russian avionics, everyone discards them as ****, but they are NOT ****, make your own, last i checked, the MKI utilizes French and Israeli avionics systems

                  Indian avionics are still too primitive too be applied to aircraft, better idea to use Israeli and French
                  Well we make avionics and if u missed the mission computer and many other things in MKI are indian Heres the link stating what we made ourselves instead of choosing russian avionics.
                  http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html
                  The Su-30MKI contains not only Russian, French and Israeli Customer Furnished Equipment (CFE), but also a substantial percentage of Indian designed and manufactured avionics. They took six years to develop from start to MKI. Advanced avionics were developed by DRDO under a project code named "Vetrivale" (a Tamil name for the victorious lance carried by the youthful Lord Karthikeya or Murugan, a son of Parvati and Shiva) in close collaboration with the PSUs and the IAF. Indian avionics have been received and acknowledged enthusiastically by the Russian principals.

                  The following are the components developed by Bangalore-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE):

                  * Mission Computer
                  * Display Processor
                  * Radar Computer
                  * Radar Warning Receiver - High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) called Tarang Mk II or Tranquil - manufactured by BEL. Tarang was originally developed for the MiG-21 Bison but later adapted for most IAF aircraft including the MiG-27ML.
                  * Integrated ommunication equipment - HAL
                  * Radar Altimeter - HAL
                  * Programmable Signal Processor has been developed by the LRDE

                  These avionics equipment have also been certified for their airworthiness in meeting the demanding standards of Russian military aviation. The cumulative value of such indigenous avionic equipment is estimated to exceed Rs. 250 lakhs per aircraft. Since the core avionics were developed by a single agency (DRDO) - they have significant commonality of hardware and software amongst them using a modular approach to design. This obviously results in major cost and time savings in development; it also benefits the user in maintenance and spares inventories.

                  The DRDO has gone a step further and come out with a new design of the Core Avionics Computer (CAC) which can be used with a single module adaptation across many other aircraft platforms. Thus the CAC which is derived from the computers designed for the Su-30MKI will now be the centre piece of the avionics upgrades for the MiG-27 and Jaguar aircraft as well. The CAC was demonstrated by DRDO at the Aero India exhibition at Yelahanka and attracted a good deal of international attention. Taken together with the systems already developed indigenously for the LCA (such as the Digital Flight Control Computer and HUD), clearly Indian avionics have a significant export potential in the burgeoning global market for avionics modernisation.

                  The navigation/weapons systems from the various countries were integrated by Ramenskoye RPKB.
                  Well and yes Indian IT industry is quite big and competitive . ITs 20B$ a year industry and increasing at more than 25% per year.

                  TVC engines are, basically only useful in WVR, in BVR scenario's, they aren't that useful unless you're trying to get out of the other aircraft's HUD
                  For that there are missiles and long range radars and MKI has the same radar as the SU34.

                  i believe so, let me check, 8,000km with one-in flight refueling,
                  well, the Su-34 has a range of 4,500km, and with in-flight refueling, it has i can't find the range for it with in-flight refueling, did i give it before, wasn't it like 7,800km?
                  Well i provided u with a link for it . A lot of changes were made in the aircraft. Somewhere i even read increasing the range from standard model ( for MKI) but that was years ago and most prob in a news paper and so dont have the link. But to prove i just have links stating the single flight refuelling range as 8000km an i gave u the same
                  Though in the vayu sena link i posted here u can see the reference about teh use of composites making it lighter and reinforced airframe helping it handle a max of 38000km in lift. So clearly a lot more has been added in range for the MKI. which remains unspoken.
                  http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/su-34.htm
                  WAIT, just discovered something, it was actually in competition with the Su-30MK for what would be the future Strike aircraft for Russia and what would replace and what would replace the Su-24
                  Good for Russia but SU30MKK is much inferior to MKI. in terms of almost everything.
                  http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/interview-fedorov1.html
                  so, are you saying that India will revamp their entire force of Su-30MKI's with a flattened nose?,
                  Of course not only a fool would spend that much money. But if they find it a good and helpful idea they will just change the shape for the airframes coming out next fromt eh factories.

                  that would cost quite a bit, you take your relationship with Russia far too easily, it's not as simple as that, you will either have to purchase the Fullback, or revamp your force of MKI's, or make a new designation, maybe Su-34I("I" for Indiiski)
                  Well taek my word on it they gave us a full in depth ToT. incluing even the engines. Stuff like changing the nose is nothing much to ask for.
                  speed helps you run away faster, NOT from a missile i'll tell you that much, from an opposing fighter, yes, it can get out of it's range, that's why i said that max speed is not entirely witout its merits, there are a few good things that max speed provide
                  WEll it can it surely can . it all depends upon how far away from the missile u are taht determines wehter u can run away safely or not. And highter speed implies that we can run from distances the SU34 wont survive. ( for higher speed means mssile will catch it at a later distance and thus a better cahnce of it running away.
                  Also since radars can see each other much before they can fire .So running chances are evcen increased by increased speeds.

                  4 Su-34's or 1 Tu-22M3?, where did you get 4 Fullbacks' from?, actually, the Backfire is pretty expensive, something like $80 million, while the Su-34 is like $35 million, so for 4 it would be more expensive
                  sorry i'll make it 3 su34 for balancing the max load they can carry . but that costs 25 m extra for using SU34.
                  Now another thing. The MKi cost for indian production is 27.5 M$( i read it in newspapers and so dont have a online link.) (down from 35 m4 of the russian made. So its gonna be 82.5 for MKi a cheaper deal for MKi will even work as Air superiority.

                  "which is much more than the Su-34 can offer"

                  there's your Indian biasness again, i wouldn't say much more, as the Fullback is a better bomber/striker than the MKI, maybe not by much, but the MKI is a better fighter than the Fullback, again, not by much, the Fullback still has outstanding maneuverability for a Strike aircraft, Russia can easily reintegrate this aircraft for the customer, and can apply Israeli avionics if necessary, again, all depending on the customer, so, i think that if India became interested in this aircraft(which they won't, because they already have MKI) Russia could refit the avionics with Israeli avionics
                  well
                  1. the range for MKI is not less than SU34.
                  2. the only advantages for su34 are its nozzle ( providing unknown amount of stealth. so really dunno how to put it in comparison) added by higher ceiling.
                  3. Those in favour of MKi are its israeli avionics and capability to fire Brahmos which the non russian Af's buying su34 might or might not get. Add to it ability to fire israeli and french missiles.use israeli ACM's .Now russia wont buy non russian avionics or missiles. But india does and other russian clients( to the best i know) arent supplied by Israel.)\
                  4. MKi program is more like every batch as a new block each with added capabilities. Theres again much more to offer.

                  So calling SU34 as better in land attack still cannot be proved.
                  Though air superiority for MKi si known.

                  hey, don't forget Russia owns part of the project to, the Brahmos missiles, Russia owns 49% and India owns 51%, where did you get that information, a nation needs the consent of India to get the missile?
                  Well go to brahmos.com and u'll see that misiles will be sold only to mutually consented clients.


                  that page was written in 2005
                  whcih page.. ??

                  actually, Russia just needs 600 orders to make PAK-FA a positive investment, but i still think that this project is necessary for future Strike aircraft, because maybe PAK-FA won't be able to perform what the Fullback can as well
                  Well that needs to be seen.
                  okay, finally i'm done, boy, hey i got a proposition for you, never thought i'd say this, but i'm tired of debating, i hate staying up until 1 in the morning every night providing you with your endless want for links, ol

                  how about we call it even, Su-30MKI=Su-34
                  lets be partners, just like Russia and India are
                  Well if u remember it all started with u saying SU34 better in A2G and me opposing the same . And i still stand on the same Lets call them Equal they oth are comparable with none much edge on other in A2g.




                  this applies to all the topics that we've been debating about, i need a break
                  LOl sorry i bugged u so much but its all in our nature . U are too muh pro russian and me too much pro indian. LOL..

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    wow, i thought that there were absolutely no russian avionics in the Su-30MKI, so what happened to the "crappy" russian avionics?

                    NICE though

                    and the radar that they both use is called the..........................? i can't find what radar the Su-34 uses, all i know is that it's multi-function and has terrain mapping and avoidance systems

                    it also has a rearward facing radar, the NIIP NO-12

                    "Good for Russia but SU30MKK is much inferior to MKI. in terms of almost everything."
                    i'm afraid you're mistaken, both the Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI are derived from the Su-30MK

                    "Well taek my word"
                    and what does your word mean, the relationship between India and Russia is complicated, Russia won't just give anything to India just because India buys a lot of Russian hardware, sadly, that's the way you think, they will actually consider it, whether or not they should give their best technology or not

                    they may provide you with the engines, and depending on what they think about the engines, might give you an inferior versionor equal one

                    3 Su-34 vs. Tu-22

                    yes they would equal the payload, BUT, the Fullbacks would vastly outrange the Backfire,6,800km to 13,500km, almost double(13,600km would be double) also, it would also be faster, 2,628kph to 6,459kph, and it would out ceil it too, 14,000 to 59,400

                    overall price would be $80 million to $105 million, plus the increased costs of maintianing the Backfire because it's older

                    as far as the MKI, yea, it's incredibly cheap which makes it really standout against the F-15K which costs $100 million per model, anways, my only response is that it can perform what the MKI can perform, at a slightly higher level of safety and and possibly lower RCS, but the lower price for the MKI balances it out

                    wait, i just noticed something, this doesn't make sense, how can a Su-30MKI have more range than a Su-34, i mean think about it, 2 seater vertical, vs. 2 seater horizontal, therefore, the Su-30MKI sacrifices back space to fit that second pilot, while in the Su-34, they just make the nose wider, which reaps many benefits inlcuing fitting more advanced avionics and a larger radar, also, the weight of the Su-34 is the heaviest of all Flanker variants at maximum because they made the aircraft larger i believe to accomodate more fuel, in the spine of the aircraft, and if the Su-30MKI is smaller than the Su-34, how can it accomodate more fuel than the Fullback, this explains why with internal fuel, the Su-34 outranges the Su-30MKI, but what doesn't make sense is that, in-flight refueling is just like getting at the very highest, double your range, because they just fill up the tank completely again, well, if the Su-34 had a larger initial tank in the first place, then how can the Su-30MKI which cannot fit as much fuel outrange the Su-34, i mean, you can attribute this range increase to the body being made out of a large portion of composites, maybe so, but i wouldn't expect such a significant difference of 1,000km with one in-flight refueling

                    buddy, so are you saying that a Mach 2 aircraft(Su-30MKI) can run from a Mach 4.5 AMRAAM, more than twice as fast, ther isn't much difference between the two aircraft either, basically no difference at all, in a combat situation, that extra 100kph would not prove to be even a mere advantage over the other, maybe 200kph+

                    "2. the only advantages for su34 are its nozzle ( providing unknown amount of stealth. so really dunno how to put it in comparison) added by higher ceiling.
                    3. Those in favour of MKi are its israeli avionics and capability to fire Brahmos which the non russian Af's buying su34 might or might not get."

                    yes, the radome is, only a small advantage though, it's nothing big, it's greatest advantage is its range and ceiling, also, Russia owns 49% of the Brahmos project, stop acting like it's only India's, it WILL be placed on the Su-34

                    the advantage of the Su-30MKI is that you can use French and Israeli missiles

                    "Though air superiority for MKi si known."
                    i'm not sure about that statement, what i would label the MKI as though is that it is very versatile, able to adapt to different situations, but i must say that the Su-34 is just a capable Strike Aircraft as it is a Fighter, it can use the AA-10, AA-11, AA-12 missiles for AA

                    "LOl sorry i bugged u so much but its all in our nature . U are too muh pro russian and me too much pro indian. LOL."

                    LOL, so true, i apologize if i insulted you in any way, i'm just trying to point out that the Su-34 is a capable fighter and strike aircratf, and you are trying to prove the same of the Su-30MKI, they're both great, let's end this, there should be no conflict between Su-27 variants, we're brothers, lol
                    for MOTHER MOLDOVA

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Dima
                      wow, i thought that there were absolutely no russian avionics in the Su-30MKI, so what happened to the "crappy" russian avionics?

                      NICE though
                      Well russians arent crappy about all avionics. They are just weak in IT and electronics.
                      and the radar that they both use is called the..........................? i can't find what radar the Su-34 uses, all i know is that it's multi-function and has terrain mapping and avoidance systems
                      Its called N011M for both. And both use same rearward radar.
                      "Good for Russia but SU30MKK is much inferior to MKI. in terms of almost everything."
                      i'm afraid you're mistaken, both the Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI are derived from the Su-30MK
                      Well yes they both are but they are different altogether in theri capabilites and the comparison lies all over the net. And in the link i pasted was quoting the president of irkutsz corp stating taht. Though u can even check the web or just compare their specs for the same.
                      "Well taek my word"
                      and what does your word mean, the relationship between India and Russia is complicated, Russia won't just give anything to India just because India buys a lot of Russian hardware, sadly, that's the way you think, they will actually consider it, whether or not they should give their best technology or not
                      Well they ahve given us their best technology even the one( like N011M radar) that they havent inducted but are using in their fightters under development. Also we are in a phase of a military relationship where russia and india none feel insecure about each other supplying the technology to the third party and to the extent that they are today developing a fighter together.
                      they may provide you with the engines, and depending on what they think about the engines, might give you an inferior versionor equal one
                      Well i dont think indians would have partnered unless they get a equal share in the development just like they did in Brahmos project .
                      3 Su-34 vs. Tu-22

                      yes they would equal the payload, BUT, the Fullbacks would vastly outrange the Backfire,6,800km to 13,500km, almost double(13,600km would be double) also, it would also be faster, 2,628kph to 6,459kph, and it would out ceil it too, 14,000 to 59,400


                      overall price would be $80 million to $105 million, plus the increased costs of maintianing the Backfire because it's older

                      as far as the MKI, yea, it's incredibly cheap which makes it really standout against the F-15K which costs $100 million per model, anways, my only response is that it can perform what the MKI can perform, at a slightly higher level of safety and and possibly lower RCS, but the lower price for the MKI balances it out
                      Do u mean about SU34;s performance. Well i think SU34 lacks up in avionics and the engine TVC and speed . and is better in RCS(maybe for results arent known) and height ceiling. Its really difficult to say if someone is better bec they are so near to each other.



                      wait, i just noticed something, this doesn't make sense, how can a Su-30MKI have more range than a Su-34, i mean think about it, 2 seater vertical, vs. 2 seater horizontal, therefore, the Su-30MKI sacrifices back space to fit that second pilot, while in the Su-34, they just make the nose wider, which reaps many benefits inlcuing fitting more advanced avionics and a larger radar, also, the weight of the Su-34 is the heaviest of all Flanker variants at maximum because they made the aircraft larger i believe to accomodate more fuel, in the spine of the aircraft, and if the Su-30MKI is smaller than the Su-34, how can it accomodate more fuel than the Fullback, this explains why with internal fuel, the Su-34 outranges the Su-30MKI, but what doesn't make sense is that, in-flight refueling is just like getting at the very highest, double your range, because they just fill up the tank completely again, well, if the Su-34 had a larger initial tank in the first place, then how can the Su-30MKI which cannot fit as much fuel outrange the Su-34, i mean, you can attribute this range increase to the body being made out of a large portion of composites, maybe so, but i wouldn't expect such a significant difference of 1,000km with one in-flight refueling
                      They did a lot of changes in the airframe .Well the links state the range as 8000km with single in flight refuelling. And thats what we have and we even know the reasons as strengthened airframe and use of comosites.How they managed it is really a different story.


                      buddy, so are you saying that a Mach 2 aircraft(Su-30MKI) can run from a Mach 4.5 AMRAAM, more than twice as fast, ther isn't much difference between the two aircraft either, basically no difference at all, in a combat situation, that extra 100kph would not prove to be even a mere advantage over the other, maybe 200kph+
                      Well the AMRAAM has a furl for a limited range ( x km). So if aircraft is at the distance y from the AMRAAM firing aircraft then
                      point where AMRAAM hits the aircraft will the z from the point of firing( assuming both move in straight lines.)

                      so z-y = 2*T & z = 4.5*T
                      So y = z-2/4.5*z=z(5/9)
                      so if x<z the fighter is safe.
                      So if AMRAAM has a fuel for 100km then we are safe flying away from teh aicraft at MACH2 at the distance longer than 55.5 km.
                      Well it will be more for SU34 owing to its lower speeds.


                      "2. the only advantages for su34 are its nozzle ( providing unknown amount of stealth. so really dunno how to put it in comparison) added by higher ceiling.
                      3. Those in favour of MKi are its israeli avionics and capability to fire Brahmos which the non russian Af's buying su34 might or might not get."

                      yes, the radome is, only a small advantage though, it's nothing big, it's greatest advantage is its range and ceiling, also, Russia owns 49% of the Brahmos project, stop acting like it's only India's, it WILL be placed on the Su-34

                      the advantage of the Su-30MKI is that you can use French and Israeli missiles
                      Well i said if Russia inducts SU34( bec till then i didnt see the link for SU34 being inducted.) then brahmos will go in otherwise they will prefer to integrate it only at clients request.


                      "Though air superiority for MKi si known."
                      i'm not sure about that statement, what i would label the MKI as though is that it is very versatile, able to adapt to different situations, but i must say that the Su-34 is just a capable Strike Aircraft as it is a Fighter, it can use the AA-10, AA-11, AA-12 missiles for AA
                      It lacks in avionics.
                      "LOl sorry i bugged u so much but its all in our nature . U are too muh pro russian and me too much pro indian. LOL."

                      LOL, so true, i apologize if i insulted you in any way, i'm just trying to point out that the Su-34 is a capable fighter and strike aircratf, and you are trying to prove the same of the Su-30MKI, they're both great, let's end this, there should be no conflict between Su-27 variants, we're brothers, lol
                      [/QUOTE]
                      Lets call it a tie.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        um ,aren't avionics the electronics systems of an aircraft, i think you're mistaken

                        oh, thanks for the radar
                        where'd you find that?link?

                        i know that the MKI is superior to the MKK, i just stated that they both derived from the MK, the reason why they are different is because Sukhoi re-configured the MKK's radome and canopy, also, it's electronics and is different from the MKI's radome, canopy and electronics

                        they will get equal share, profits, but in the actual Technology, i'm not sure Russia will give away its greatest secrets to India, i mean they have a warm relationship, but there is definitely a line, and as Russia's arms industry improves, their dependance on India will lessen, thus, they wil actually be able to say"no"

                        can you give me a link stating that the Su-30MKI's appearance is drastically different compared to the Su-30MK, thanks

                        concerning the speed issue, a difference of 100kph, as i have said a few times already, isn't significant in battle

                        let me try to make a formula, it will put it at intervals of 10km starting at 60km away from the firer, against an AIM-120C with a range of 120km, it goes at 4,896 kph, the Su-34 goes at 2,153 kph, and the Su-30MKI will go at 2,390 kph

                        60 KM
                        Su-30MKI, it will take 1 minute and 30 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagment range
                        Su-34, it will take 1 minute and 40 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        for the AMRAAM to go over a distance of 60 km, it will only take 44.1 seconds, destroying both aircraft

                        70 KM
                        Su-30MKI, it will take 1 minute and 15 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        Su-34, it will take 1 minute and 24 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        for the AMRAAM to go over a distance of 70km, it will only take 51 seconds, destroying both aircraft

                        80 KM
                        Su-30MKI, it will take 1 minute to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        Su-34, it will take 1 minute and 7 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        for the AMRAAM to go over a distance of 80km, it will only take 59 seconds, possibly destroying both aircraft(perhaps not the Su-30MKI)

                        now we will try 81km, since it was so close earlier

                        Su-30MKI, it will take 59 seconds for it to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        Su-34, it will take 1 minute and 5 seconds for it to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        the AMRAAM to go over a distance of 81 km will only take it 1 minute, therefore, it will only be capable of destroying the Su-34, and extremely narrowly, the Su-30MKI escapes(in real life 50/50 chance that this will happen, because it's such a small margin, 1 second)

                        82 KM

                        Su-34, it will take 1 minute 4 seconds for it to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        the AMRAAM only requires 1 minute to fulfill this range destroying the Su-34

                        84 KM

                        Su-34 will take 1 minute to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                        AMRAAM will be able to cover the distance of 84 km in 1 minute and 2 seconds

                        now, let's try in between, 83 KM

                        Su-34 will take 1 minute and 2 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's detection range
                        AMRAAM will cover this distance of 83 km in 1 minute 1 second, narrowly destroying the aircratf

                        therefore, based on this example, the conclusion is that the Su-30MKI will need only to be a minimum of 81/82 km away from the firer to get out of the AMRAAM's range in time to be safe, and the Su-34 will require to be a minimum of 84/85 km away from the firer to ensure that it escapes safely, there is only a 3 km advantage, i would hardly call that important in battle

                        also, since the Su-34's RCS will be slightly smaller than the Su-30MKI's, it will be extremely equal in this respect

                        "It lacks in avionics. "
                        perhaps, slightly, not dignificantly, but they do havea good radar and good missiles, which improves its air-to-air capability, maybe not to the level fo the Su-30MKI, but pretty darn close
                        for MOTHER MOLDOVA

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Dima
                          um ,aren't avionics the electronics systems of an aircraft, i think you're mistaken

                          Well i said that they are weak in IT and electronics and thats all becuase because of their experience. So owing to increased investment in the radars. They are good at making comparable radars/even better ones as they know how to make electronics of that type. But it cant be said about parts like mission computers which arent taht good(or else wouldnt have been replacedd by indians ) .
                          oh, thanks for the radar
                          where'd you find that?link?
                          Its there in the Vayu sena link i have posted/the bharat-rakshak link.


                          i know that the MKI is superior to the MKK, i just stated that they both derived from the MK, the reason why they are different is because Sukhoi re-configured the MKK's radome and canopy, also, it's electronics and is different from the MKI's radome, canopy and electronics
                          Same goes for MKI. Its frame is strengthened.

                          they will get equal share, profits, but in the actual Technology, i'm not sure Russia will give away its greatest secrets to India, i mean they have a warm relationship, but there is definitely a line, and as Russia's arms industry improves, their dependance on India will lessen, thus, they wil actually be able to say"no"
                          Well India is getting evthin in Brahmos. And i believe that india wouldnt invest in the project if its given something better than the countries who are not participating but will later purchase it( for what will be the use of investing otherwise.). Now indians wouldnt make an equal partnership with russia without getting equal level of technology of the product as russia. Of course we will also be desigining some of the stuff( like certain avionics involving IT which we can do better). Now indians who prefer to get complete In depth ToT of MKI. Got the technology of the best radar russia had with it (N011M).

                          [QUTOE=]
                          can you give me a link stating that the Su-30MKI's appearance is drastically different compared to the Su-30MK, thanks
                          [/QUOTE]
                          This bharat rakshak and vayu sena links i have shown u contain info about the changes made in the airframe wrt the standard MK model And yes can u plzz give a link about the changed rotodome of MKK?

                          concerning the speed issue, a difference of 100kph, as i have said a few times already, isn't significant in battle

                          let me try to make a formula, it will put it at intervals of 10km starting at 60km away from the firer, against an AIM-120C with a range of 120km, it goes at 4,896 kph, the Su-34 goes at 2,153 kph, and the Su-30MKI will go at 2,390 kph

                          60 KM
                          Su-30MKI, it will take 1 minute and 30 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagment range
                          Su-34, it will take 1 minute and 40 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          for the AMRAAM to go over a distance of 60 km, it will only take 44.1 seconds, destroying both aircraft

                          70 KM
                          Su-30MKI, it will take 1 minute and 15 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          Su-34, it will take 1 minute and 24 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          for the AMRAAM to go over a distance of 70km, it will only take 51 seconds, destroying both aircraft

                          80 KM
                          Su-30MKI, it will take 1 minute to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          Su-34, it will take 1 minute and 7 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          for the AMRAAM to go over a distance of 80km, it will only take 59 seconds, possibly destroying both aircraft(perhaps not the Su-30MKI)

                          now we will try 81km, since it was so close earlier

                          Su-30MKI, it will take 59 seconds for it to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          Su-34, it will take 1 minute and 5 seconds for it to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          the AMRAAM to go over a distance of 81 km will only take it 1 minute, therefore, it will only be capable of destroying the Su-34, and extremely narrowly, the Su-30MKI escapes(in real life 50/50 chance that this will happen, because it's such a small margin, 1 second)

                          82 KM

                          Su-34, it will take 1 minute 4 seconds for it to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          the AMRAAM only requires 1 minute to fulfill this range destroying the Su-34

                          84 KM

                          Su-34 will take 1 minute to get out of the AMRAAM's engagement range
                          AMRAAM will be able to cover the distance of 84 km in 1 minute and 2 seconds

                          now, let's try in between, 83 KM

                          Su-34 will take 1 minute and 2 seconds to get out of the AMRAAM's detection range
                          AMRAAM will cover this distance of 83 km in 1 minute 1 second, narrowly destroying the aircratf

                          therefore, based on this example, the conclusion is that the Su-30MKI will need only to be a minimum of 81/82 km away from the firer to get out of the AMRAAM's range in time to be safe, and the Su-34 will require to be a minimum of 84/85 km away from the firer to ensure that it escapes safely, there is only a 3 km advantage, i would hardly call that important in battle

                          also, since the Su-34's RCS will be slightly smaller than the Su-30MKI's, it will be extremely equal in this respect
                          1. MKI will be using better ECM's.
                          2.SU34 is bigger too so the its really difficult to know how much of a gain has been achieved by changing the shape of the rotodome( BTW why was the rotodome shape changed. Was it due to the radar. ??
                          "It lacks in avionics. "
                          perhaps, slightly, not dignificantly, but they do havea good radar and good missiles, which improves its air-to-air capability, maybe not to the level fo the Su-30MKI, but pretty darn close
                          Well i dont think so for all the MKI vs MKK comparisons around the web bed to differ on the same. We all know that western avionics are better( with the exception of radars for russians which are comparable).

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            but, who said that the joint venture for PAK-FA was going to be equally split between the two, who knows, maybe India will only get a 30% share in the venture

                            the reason why they changed the shape of the radome was because they wanted to allow the aircraft to go on strike and bombing missions in excess of 10 hours, equal to the MKI, therfore, they widened the radome in order to accomodate a mini-washroom, and small galley(kitchen area) that's the primary reason why

                            i beg to differ on most powerful, the Flash Dance of the MiG-31 is the most poewrful radar in the world

                            good, finally this discussion has grown short, i'm tired of debating
                            for MOTHER MOLDOVA

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Dima
                              but, who said that the joint venture for PAK-FA was going to be equally split between the two, who knows, maybe India will only get a 30% share in the venture

                              the reason why they changed the shape of the radome was because they wanted to allow the aircraft to go on strike and bombing missions in excess of 10 hours, equal to the MKI, therfore, they widened the radome in order to accomodate a mini-washroom, and small galley(kitchen area) that's the primary reason why

                              i beg to differ on most powerful, the Flash Dance of the MiG-31 is the most poewrful radar in the world

                              good, finally this discussion has grown short, i'm tired of debating
                              Oh sorry i just forgot about Mig31 radar.But even Mig31 was offered to india.

                              In my opinion N011M is most advanced( i.e. considering both physical size and range) .Well i dont think the MIG31 radar can be fitter on su27 variants .I read somewhere that N011M and AESA are based on same underlying concepts .


                              Well surely true. But the point is we will get much better deal than the guys who will buy it after teh development is over. As we are investing money in it. Though even if the partnership is somethin like 30% still it would be difficult for russia to stop india from taking most of the adavanced tech which isnt available for sale normally and indians will fight to get anythin that can goes in Russian Air force.BTW by now it would have all been decided what all india is gonna get and wether it is gonna be the same as that for russia or not. But if india wasnt getting everything it would ahve been out by now as its in the case with the F35 (JSF) development.And since its not out it seems like a equal participation to me,.(for india can surely invest that much and has shown interest too and equal indian investment will in turn help russia save extra finances for other projects like missiles etc.)
                              Last edited by ajaybhutani; 20 Feb 05,, 10:54.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                did the Russians provide the MiG-31 to India? what, never heard of that, i know that they were preparing to give it to China, but i haven't heard about India
                                http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-31.htm
                                3ed paragraph
                                oh kool, actually, i read that the MiG-31 radar has a 200 km range, that's insane
                                http://www.ausairpower.net/aesa-intro.html
                                actually, the report mentions that the SBI-16 Zaslon radar is an AESA radar, and reluctantly, to back up your claim, it also mentions that the NIIP N-011M radar is also AESA
                                http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...sia/mig-31.htm
                                second paragraph, towards the top


                                not necessarily, since Russia's situation is very complicated, Russia doesn't really know what it's doing, so, i'd give it a few years, maybe after the first flight, after 2007 for their word on it, there can always be a late announcement
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