I want specific information on Pak-FA

[highsea]

...anyways, here are the links, the second one is in russian, and is therefore, most likely the most accurate of the two
http://warfare.ru/?catid=255&linkid=2280
http://paralay.narod.ru/pakfasu.html

for the second site, look at the first picture, and open, it, it compares the T-50 to the F-22, it's actually really nice

Lol, great sites, kid. The first one is the same old recycled pics of the long abandoned MiG I.2000. Anyone that thinks that is the Pak-fa is not too bright. It's a subsonic trainer. The LFI concept is dead anyway, Russia knows better than to try to resurrect it (hopefully, for their sake). Russia bailed out on that project 8 years ago, and Iran has resurrected it as the Shafaq. Maybe a 3rd world AF can use a new LFI, but no modern country will waste the money.

Your second link showed the same pictures, except the top one, which shows the Pak-fa as a F-22 clone without stealthy nozzles.

The truth is that the Pak-fa, if it ever gets built, will likely be based on the SU-47 Berkut, but without the FSW. And this is going to have to compete for funding with the MCA. Russia doesn't have the money to field the AC themselves, and India is the only other user- how many Pak-fa's and MCA's can India afford? And new submarines, aircraft carriers, LCA, MiG-29k, etc...I don't know what the tax rate is in India, but at this rate it's going to get higher...

The MiG 1.42/1.44 was a decent design, with some frontal aspect stealth characteristics. But it was slab-sided, and did not have stealthy intakes, nozzles, or vertical stabs, other than RAM coatings. And it only flew for 15 minutes. Russia wisely cancelled it when it was obviously not a challenger to the Raptor. (Must of been a problem with the "Plasma stealth". )

[Severnaya]

The MiG 1.42/1.44 was a decent design, with some frontal aspect stealth characteristics. But it was slab-sided, and did not have stealthy intakes, nozzles, or vertical stabs, other than RAM coatings. And it only flew for 15 minutes. Russia wisely cancelled it when it was obviously not a challenger to the Raptor. (Must of been a problem with the "Plasma stealth". )

It was never designed to become a massed produced aircraft.. it was a technological bed, used for demonstrating the ability of the Russian aerial designers ability to design and produce a 5th generation aircraft.. It was a challenge to the Raptor; nothing less nothing more.

[Dima]

just to reply, Sukhoi will be the main leader of the trio of companies involved in PAK-FA, Sukhoi will won 40% of the project while MiG Corporation and Yakovlev design bureau will each get 20%(these are the sahres of the project) T-50, so far they have an electronic model on the computer, that's the farthest they've gotten so far, 2007 will be first flight, only 2 more years to go, EXCELLENT

yes, it will be based on the Su-47, i just hope it lives up to the legend of the Flanker, sad to see it go away

MiG 1.44 is differnet from the MiG 1.42, the model that everyone saw pictures of was the MiG 1.44, the configuratoin of the aircraft would change, production model was named MiG 1.42, while the prototype, which everyone saw was named MiG 1.44, the shape of the wings would change, the engines, the radome as well, there was this one good site on google i read one day, can't find it, you guys go ahead and look for it, it was really interesting, now it's available for export, so is Su-47, highly doubt anyone will purchase them though

[highsea]

It was never designed to become a massed produced aircraft.. it was a technological bed, used for demonstrating the ability of the Russian aerial designers ability to design and produce a 5th generation aircraft.. It was a challenge to the Raptor; nothing less nothing more.

I doubt MiG feels that way. The 1.42/1.44 was designed to be the next generation Russian fighter (MFI), but it lost out to the SU-47. Remember that Russia hasn't inducted any new aircraft for almost 10 years. If it was so good, then why did the Sukhoi win all the military funding? MAPO had to fund it almost entirely on their own, as the Ministry of Defense couldn't support both projects. Russia's financial difficulties dictate what they can and can't do. The SU-47 performed better in tests, and had a better chance of foreign sales, so that AC was the winner.

Neither one can compete with the Raptor, but a comparison of the Eurofighter Typhoon is probably more accurate. Neither one is really a true fifth generation fighter. They both incorporate composites and internal weapons, but they use old airframe designs- the boxy intakes and square sides on the 1.42, and the forward fuselage and vertical stabs on the SU-47. Neither AC is particularly low RCS by shape- they will rely on coatings and composites. And neither one tries to shield the nozzles, so the best they can get is JSF-like stealth, e.g. frontal aspect only.

[ajaybhutani]

You mean to say that T 50 will have both MIG and SU involved in the project.

SU has money and India is providing more . So it will really be a great plane

and we ll be able to see it soon as there is no money problem.

Well SU will invest what all it has from the exports . indian and russian govts from their pockets and then even mig up to its own limits for he parts it will be given to make. Though saying that there will be no money problem will be too soon to judge as costs of such projects are enormous like F22 it might go to soemthin like 10B to even 20B$ but again it all depends upon how much has already been developed. For even the engine will take 1-1.5 B$ for development. Add to it billions for avionics and airframe recheck etc etc..

[Dima]

also, add to that that the cost or producing aircraft in Russia is roughly three times cheaper than in America

[ajaybhutani]

Well Some new things i learned this week which have made in real optimistic about this project
1. Mig31 M latest version can go supercruise at 2500km/h. Now thats a hefty 1000km/h morethan F22. Can a similar magic be expected from PAK-FA??
2. Since russians have the AESA technology. (N011M is AESA) .So well there wont be a prob in making a radar competing with F22. We need to take care of the RCS. Though Avionics will be a rpoblem as american ones are considered the best. But again a lot of good stuff can be expected.

[MIKEMUN]

Well Some new things i learned this week which have made in real optimistic about this project
1. Mig31 M latest version can go supercruise at 2500km/h. Now thats a hefty 1000km/h morethan F22. Can a similar magic be expected from PAK-FA??
2. Since russians have the AESA technology. (N011M is AESA) .So well there wont be a prob in making a radar competing with F22. We need to take care of the RCS. Though Avionics will be a rpoblem as american ones are considered the best. But again a lot of good stuff can be expected.

Sorry ajay,but could I ask for a link..Otherwise it sounds like Russian marketing again.....

[ajaybhutani]

Name Mig 31M(05) PAK-FA
Engines 2 x Turbofan D-30F6M AL-41F
Thrust 16,500 kg. each 15500 kgs. each.
Weight(max) 52000 32600
Now what i cant understand is if Mig31M can supercruise at Mach2.35 then at least PAK-FA shud supercruise at similar speeds (if the airframe can sustain if). Obviously the Thrusts i gave here are of afterburners as i couldnt find the normal ones which would actually determine how fast it can supercruise. Does anyone have these figures??


Both F22 and PAK-FA carry similar engines ( in thrust) => PAK-FA shud be able to supercruise much faster ( due to lower weight).

[ajaybhutani]

just to reply, Sukhoi will be the main leader of the trio of companies involved in PAK-FA, Sukhoi will won 40% of the project while MiG Corporation and Yakovlev design bureau will each get 20%(these are the sahres of the project) T-50, so far they have an electronic model on the computer, that's the farthest they've gotten so far, 2007 will be first flight, only 2 more years to go, EXCELLENT

yes, it will be based on the Su-47, i just hope it lives up to the legend of the Flanker, sad to see it go away

MiG 1.44 is differnet from the MiG 1.42, the model that everyone saw pictures of was the MiG 1.44, the configuratoin of the aircraft would change, production model was named MiG 1.42, while the prototype, which everyone saw was named MiG 1.44, the shape of the wings would change, the engines, the radome as well, there was this one good site on google i read one day, can't find it, you guys go ahead and look for it, it was really interesting, now it's available for export, so is Su-47, highly doubt anyone will purchase them though

i think i missed ur link stating that Su47 and mig1.44 are up for exports . Can u please repost it??

[Garry]

Well SU will invest what all it has from the exports . indian and russian govts from their pockets and then even mig up to its own limits for he parts it will be given to make. Though saying that there will be no money problem will be too soon to judge as costs of such projects are enormous like F22 it might go to soemthin like 10B to even 20B$ but again it all depends upon how much has already been developed. For even the engine will take 1-1.5 B$ for development. Add to it billions for avionics and airframe recheck etc etc..

don't compare directly US and Russian R&D funds for same level of progress.... Poor learn more efficient way. For the last 10 years Russian engineers have learned how to reach impressive achievements with quite moderate funds..... As you might know R&D for Su-30MKI modernization cost only $300mln.... I don't have data for F-15 ACTIVE by NASA but I guess it cost much more than $1bn. And by time MKI program was finished in just 3 years while Active was dragged from 1993 to 1999

If Russia goes for PAK FA R&D it will cost cheaper and faster than it did for US. This will remain for another 15 years after which Russian scientific abilities will start declining sharply due change of scientist generations.....

[Garry]

i think i missed ur link stating that Su47 and mig1.44 are up for exports . Can u please repost it??

no. Nobody would buy an uncompleted program.....

[Garry]

Name Mig 31M(05) PAK-FA
Engines 2 x Turbofan D-30F6M AL-41F
Thrust 16,500 kg. each 15500 kgs. each.
Weight(max) 52000 32600
Now what i cant understand is if Mig31M can supercruise at Mach2.35 then at least PAK-FA shud supercruise at similar speeds (if the airframe can sustain if). Obviously the Thrusts i gave here are of afterburners as i couldnt find the normal ones which would actually determine how fast it can supercruise. Does anyone have these figures??


Both F22 and PAK-FA carry similar engines ( in thrust) => PAK-FA shud be able to supercruise much faster ( due to lower weight).

from what I heard a year ago about AL-41F - in 1993 it was a bit inferior to what F-22 claims to be able.... However if AL-41F engine program will resume they will upgrade requiements and tasks for the engine.... This is one of the most expensive part of PAK FA creation....

Russia will unify engines on its light and heavy fighters. PAK FA will have a smaller version as a light fighter. The PAK TI (heavy long-range fighter) will have a larger version of AL-41F.... both engines will have most of spareparts interchangible...

[ajaybhutani]

Sorry ajay,but could I ask for a link..Otherwise it sounds like Russian marketing again.....

fro mig31M

http://www.hostultra.com/~migalley/mig31_variants.html

[ajaybhutani]

from what I heard a year ago about AL-41F - in 1993 it was a bit inferior to what F-22 claims to be able.... However if AL-41F engine program will resume they will upgrade requiements and tasks for the engine.... This is one of the most expensive part of PAK FA creation....

Russia will unify engines on its light and heavy fighters. PAK FA will have a smaller version as a light fighter. The PAK TI (heavy long-range fighter) will have a larger version of AL-41F.... both engines will have most of spareparts interchangible...

didnt hear about PAK T1 before can u give more info on it ??