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What is up with the F-35? Part II

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  • "Even fully loaded, the F-35’s performance doesn't change from its unencumbered configuration, he (Burbage) said."


    I want to know how that is possible as the thrust to weight ratio is obviously low with a full war load versus empty ferry configuration. I understand there is way way less parasitic drag without external hard-points and anything on them but I have to think there is some change in the thrust to weight-and also center of balance. I don't know how appreciable it would be but there is no way a 29,000 lbs dry weight fighter isn't going to have slightly different characteristics with ~4000 lbs of bombs in the bay versus not. I am hoping either that this was a throw away line for a publication instead of something that an airplane design team program lead believes.

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    • Originally posted by Maxor View Post
      "Even fully loaded, the F-35’s performance doesn't change from its unencumbered configuration, he (Burbage) said."


      I want to know how that is possible as the thrust to weight ratio is obviously low with a full war load versus empty ferry configuration. I understand there is way way less parasitic drag without external hard-points and anything on them but I have to think there is some change in the thrust to weight-and also center of balance. I don't know how appreciable it would be but there is no way a 29,000 lbs dry weight fighter isn't going to have slightly different characteristics with ~4000 lbs of bombs in the bay versus not. I am hoping either that this was a throw away line for a publication instead of something that an airplane design team program lead believes.
      Yeah clearly a different thrust to weigh ratio will affect acceleration etc and slight changes in CoG will affect stability and hench maneouverability of the airframe. But I think just taking a glance at some numbers from Wiki looks like the changes are down in the second decimal place of the T/W ratio. Not being an Aeronautical engineer I dont know whether that is considered 'Significant" or not.

      Regards

      Arty
      "Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter-accusations".- Motto of the Gun Crew who have just done something incredibly stupid!!!!

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      • I suppose that depends on the definition of "fully loaded"; internal stores only, or external stores also? Does the F-35 have the capability of having (temporary) external hardpoints, a-la the F-22? I assume it does, so that statement doesn't really make sense. Yes, T-W ratio will definitely decrease with ordnance hanging off of the wings, even A-to-A missles.
        "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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        • I know I shouldn't but I can't help myself....

          Attached Files
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

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          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            *snip comparison*
            Genius! Good find!

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            • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
              *snip comparison*
              Yeeouch!

              Now that was right between the eyes. "Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history!"

              (Chogy is probably going to take a swing at me for that one )
              “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
              ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

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              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                Now that was right between the eyes. "Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history!"
                Is that the Air Force version of JFC Fullers quote "Artillery conquers, The Infantry occupy":whome:
                Last edited by Gun Grape; 02 Feb 12,, 02:30.

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                • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                  [ATTACH]28288[/ATTACH]
                  Clearly this belongs in a F-22 thread and not one based on the F-35!

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                  • Jesus, don't show that to APA... Kopp and Goon will be comparing it's RCS based on internet images compared to the PAK-FA.
                    Ego Numquam

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                    • The F-35A, has begun flying with external weapons.
                      F-35 begins flight tests with external missiles - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times

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                      • Some good news out of the F-35 program today.

                        http://defensetech.org/2012/02/28/eg...ed-for-flight/

                        The Air Force’s F-35A Joint Strike Fighter training jets that have been sitting on the tarmac at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., — home of the F-35 schoolhouse — have finally been cleared to fly.

                        Now, this doesn’t mean that student pilots will be strapping on the A-model jets later in the week. The Eglin jets face months of test flights to make sure that the small fleet can actually perform the training mission before any student pilots can get behind the controls. Click here to read a post I wrote last week over at DoDBuzz on this topic.

                        The pic above shows Eglins first F-35A arriving at the base from the JSF factory in Texas last summer. The planes have been sitting on the ground since arrival while the waited for their Military Flight Release (the green light to begin flight ops).

                        Here’s the Air Force’s press release announcing that the jets have been cleared for flight:

                        WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio – Officials at the Aeronautical Systems Center here issued a Military Flight Release today that will allow the F-35A Lightning II fighter to begin initial operations at Eglin AFB, Fla.

                        This decision was reached after an airworthiness board conducted an assessment that evaluated potential risks and the corresponding mitigation actions to conduct unmonitored flights. Flying the Air Force variant of the Joint Strike Fighter will increase pilot and maintainer familiarity with the aircraft, exercise the logistics infrastructure and continue to develop aircraft maturity. These initial F-35A flights will be limited, scripted, conducted within the restrictions and stipulations of the MFR and flown by qualified pilots, officials said.

                        “The Air Force, Joint Strike Fighter Program Office and other stakeholders have painstakingly followed established risk acceptance and mitigation processes to ensure the F-35A is ready. This is an important step for the F-35A and we are confident the team has diligently balanced the scope of initial operations with system maturity,” said General Donald Hoffman, commander of Air Force Materiel Command, the parent organization of ASC.

                        The assessment was conducted with airworthiness engineering subject matter experts within ASC and was fully coordinated with the F-35 joint Strike Fighter Program Office, Air Education and Training Command, and other expert participants. The Air Force is confident the aircraft is ready to fly in a safe and efficient manner, Hoffman said.

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                        • It's mind-boggling how drawn out this process is.

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                          • Originally posted by Jimmy View Post
                            It's mind-boggling how drawn out this process is.
                            Two steps forward, one step back . . . .
                            "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                            • I got to ask....so how much experience in defense Acquisition do you folks have? How quickly do you think it takes develop this kind of technology? If you test the hell out of a system during its development phase of the acquisition life cycle you end up saving money in the long run by fielding a system with higher reliability. 70% of Program costs come after a system is fielded. So you do everything you can in development to drive long range costs down.

                              What you are seeing is nothing more than the due diligence of a program manager spending smaller money now to spend less money later. It's called designing for RAM reliability, availability,maintainability.

                              If the Osprey had done more of this it would not have the problems it had for so long.
                              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                              Mark Twain

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                              • Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history
                                Says the bomber pilot who couldn't hack it in pilot training and ended up in "heavies." ;)

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