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What is up with the F-35? Part II

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  • What gets me is how pissy-whimpsy everyone has gotten. We make a big deal about FONOPS. The Chinese are bellyaching. The Russians are warning us. Back in our day (Dinosaurs speaking now), these things MIGHT make it to page 6 in the local paper, right behind the SUNSHINE GIRL. We saw 4 T-72s at a Berlin checkpoint. Whoopee do. A Russian army doing drills 100 miles from the Ukrainian border and everyone is crying rape.

    This is a Big Boys Game with Big Boys Rules and a Big Boys Rule is don't bellyache about things being unfair.
    Chimo

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    • Italy took over Baltic Air Policing from Germany at the turn of the month - deploying F-35A to the Russian border for the first time for that. BAP deployments are usually for 8 months. The Italian Air Force has previously deployed F-35 in NATO Air Policing over the North Atlantic, from Iceland.

      The US has so far only had short visits of F-35, in 2017 to Estonia and 2019 to Lithuania.

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      • Lockheed Martin beats its F-35 delivery goal for 2021

        (Reuters) - Lockheed Martin delivered a total of 142 F-35 fighter jets to the United States and its allies, three more than originally planned, the world's largest defense contractor said on Monday.

        The company was expected to deliver between 133 and 139 jets in 2021.

        Last year, two new countries – Switzerland and Finland – selected Lockheed's F-35 for their new fighter jet programs. The company added that Denmark received its first F-35 in 2021 and the Royal Netherlands Air Force became the eighth nation to declare their F-35 fleet ready for initial operational capability.

        Finland in December said it planned to order 64 F-35 fighter jets with weapons systems in a $9.4 billion deal. Earlier last year, Switzerland had picked Lockheed's F-35A Lightning II as its next-generation fighter jet.


        In 2022, Lockheed plans to deliver 151 to 153 of the fighter aircraft, fewer than the 169 jets it had hoped to deliver. The weapons maker also said it was expecting to deliver 156 aircraft to the U.S. beginning 2023 and for the "foreseeable future".

        The U.S. government is Lockheed's biggest customer, accounting for three quarters of its sales last year.
        _________
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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        • Lockheed Martin beats its F-35 delivery goal for 2021

          Been saying for quite awhile...once they took a scythe to the PM office for the F-35 they would end up with a competent government partner with industry to get a game changing weapon system to the Force. So many of our best practices in Acquisition are the result of what we learned from the early fiascoes of the F-35 office.
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

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          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            Lockheed Martin beats its F-35 delivery goal for 2021

            Been saying for quite awhile...once they took a scythe to the PM office for the F-35 they would end up with a competent government partner with industry to get a game changing weapon system to the Force. So many of our best practices in Acquisition are the result of what we learned from the early fiascoes of the F-35 office.
            Without getting yourself into hot water, can you elaborate on that? Was this a "too many cooks in the kitchen situation"? By god that was certainly the case with the basic JSF concept (CTOL/STOVL/CATOBAR all crammed into a common airframe).
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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            • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

              Without getting yourself into hot water, can you elaborate on that? Was this a "too many cooks in the kitchen situation"? By god that was certainly the case with the basic JSF concept (CTOL/STOVL/CATOBAR all crammed into a common airframe).
              Poor system engineering

              Ignoring Acquisition Logisticians who told PM that they were accepting too many risks in integrating software systems

              Good idea fairies allowed to run free

              Poor business management practices

              Those 4 phrases are a distillation of about a 2 week Defense Acquisition University class
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

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              • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                Enjoy.
                Availability and Use of F-35 Fighter Aircraft

                Congressional Budget Office, April 7, 2022

                CBO examines the availability and use of DoD’s F-35 fighter aircraft. This report includes findings about fleet sizes, availability rates, time spent in depot-level maintenance, flying hours, and the effects of the coronavirus pandemic.

                https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57842

                Is there a better thread for this?
                Here.
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                .
                .

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                • Still looks like the F-35 is under-performing in terms of readiness & maintenance costs compared to other platforms. I assume there is still some prospect of improvement over the next few years? Or is that a forlorn hope?
                  If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                  • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                    Still looks like the F-35 is under-performing in terms of readiness & maintenance costs compared to other platforms. I assume there is still some prospect of improvement over the next few years? Or is that a forlorn hope?
                    GE are developing and promoting an engine upgrade (XA100) which promises improved cooling of onboard electronics, as well as improved engine durability, improved fuel efficiency, and increased thrust. P&W are developing and promoting a competing product (XA101).





                    Also, the Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider reportedly uses the P&W F135 which is currently used in the F-35, so maybe that too will get a better engine if a better engine gets funded into production for use in F-35A/C.
                    Last edited by JRT; 09 Apr 22,, 21:41.
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                    • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                      Still looks like the F-35 is under-performing in terms of readiness & maintenance costs compared to other platforms. I assume there is still some prospect of improvement over the next few years? Or is that a forlorn hope?
                      Anither issue...the sources of supply for parts are the same for spares in operational squadrons. That means the PM & operational commanders are fighting over the same parts.
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

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                      • The Lightning Carrier concept is getting one hell of a workout...20 F-35B's deployed on USS Tripoli

                        Aboard The Marine's First F-35B-Packed 'Lightning Carrier'

                        Click image for larger version

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                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • I suppose they had to try, if only to show the Air Force they could do it :). But I can't think of many realistic situations where the 'Lightening Carrier' concept would be of practice use to the Marines. I only say this because it seems to me that, given the nature of their mission putting 20 F-35s on an LPH sort of cancels out the reason they were built in the first place. 20 jet fighters go on? Most of its helicopters have to go come off! Which to me at least seems to be a big chunk of airlift capacity for a MAGFT to lose.
                          If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                          • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                            I suppose they had to try, if only to show the Air Force they could do it :). But I can't think of many realistic situations where the 'Lightening Carrier' concept would be of practice use to the Marines. I only say this because it seems to me that, given the nature of their mission putting 20 F-35s on an LPH sort of cancels out the reason they were built in the first place. 20 jet fighters go on? Most of its helicopters have to go come off! Which to me at least seems to be a big chunk of airlift capacity for a MAGFT to lose.
                            It's been done before, during the 2nd Iraq War. Except of course they were Harrier Carriers then.

                            Also America and Tripoli were built as aviation-centric ships, no well deck and smaller medical facilities = larger hanger and magazine spaces.

                            Everything you wanted to know and more about the concept can be found here

                            USS Bataan being used in the "Harrier Carrier" role for Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003.
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                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                            • USS Nassau did it back during Desert Storm.

                              And if you want to go back further Nassau did it in 1981 on a Med float with 2 Harrier squadrons.

                              nihil sub sole novum

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                              • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                                I suppose they had to try, if only to show the Air Force they could do it :). But I can't think of many realistic situations where the 'Lightening Carrier' concept would be of practice use to the Marines. I only say this because it seems to me that, given the nature of their mission putting 20 F-35s on an LPH sort of cancels out the reason they were built in the first place. 20 jet fighters go on? Most of its helicopters have to go come off! Which to me at least seems to be a big chunk of airlift capacity for a MAGFT to lose.
                                Shift the MV-22s to the San Antonio class ship. They can carry 5.
                                Harpers Ferry class could do 5 CH-46s. don't know about Ospreys

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