What is up with the F-35? Part II

[Garry]

Not sure about who's drank how much champagne, but I'd imagine part of it being, similar to Irans F-14's, Russia having 'indirect' access to the F-35 at some point via Turkey is a bit concerning.

f-35 is just a hardware.... while Turkey is a vital part of NATO southern flank. If it turns into Russian ally, it will be more damage than any f-35 secrets in Russian hands. Plus.... I doubt F-35 is that capable to be that valuable loss. Have read this thread some time back - US Defence Sector has lost its reasonableness completelly with this program

[bfng3569]

I never understood the stupidy of this act. USA is delivering Turkey to Russia for free.... Putin couldn't dream of such present. No matter how it ends up Russia is in huge profit!!!
F-35 not delivered to Turkey? Putin drinks Champaign.... finally F-35 delivered despite S-400 acquisition? Putin adds cavia sandwich to his plate to celebrate weakness of USA politics... Turkey gives up S-400 and gets F-35 - even better, the whole country is humiliated by USA and chances that these F-35 will ever threaten Russia if a clash with USA happens now much lower.

Imagine what genious must be those politics who put USA in such a stupid situation )))

Not sure about who's drank how much champagne, but I'd imagine part of it being, similar to Irans F-14's, Russia having 'indirect' access to the F-35 at some point via Turkey is a bit concerning.

[Garry]

the saga continues....

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...-35s-to-turkey

No Stealth For You!: Trump Signs Defense Bill That Blocks Transfer Of F-35s To Turkey

just a snipit...

The language in the law requires a written review within 90 days on Turkish-U.S. relations, including the use of Incirlik Air Base by American forces, as well as a risk assessment associated with delivering F-35s to Turkey as well as other platforms and weapons systems. It reads in part:

Assessment of impacts on other United States weapon systems and platforms operated jointly with the Republic of Turkey" for the following

(ii) the Patriot surface-to-air missile system;

(iii) the CH–47 Chinook heavy lift helicopter;

(iv) the AH–64 Attack helicopter;

(v) the H–60 Black Hawk utility helicopter; and

(vi) the F–16 Fighting Falcon aircraft.

Only once these documents are delivered can a reevaluation of the restrictions be made.

The first Turkish F-35 has already been delivered, but it will be some time before the jets actually migrate to Turkey as Turkish F-35 pilot training is just being spun up at Luke AFB in Arizona.

Secretary of Defense James Mattis was opposed to blocking the transfer on the grounds that Turkey is still a regional strategic ally of the United States and that it would add to the F-35 program's cost and potentially disrupt its supply chain among other factors. But rhetoric emanating from Ankara doesn't point to the possibility of a repeal of the embargo anytime soon, as both Trump and Erdogan squabble over the return of religious leaders in each other's countries.

I never understood the stupidy of this act. USA is delivering Turkey to Russia for free.... Putin couldn't dream of such present. No matter how it ends up Russia is in huge profit!!!
F-35 not delivered to Turkey? Putin drinks Champaign.... finally F-35 delivered despite S-400 acquisition? Putin adds cavia sandwich to his plate to celebrate weakness of USA politics... Turkey gives up S-400 and gets F-35 - even better, the whole country is humiliated by USA and chances that these F-35 will ever threaten Russia if a clash with USA happens now much lower.

Imagine what genious must be those politics who put USA in such a stupid situation )))

[tbm3fan]

Interesting little story out of Syria. Noticed the story started back in October 2017. Oh, well it is a slow news day here...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/did-russi...141600170.html

[surfgun]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OmP2NxeF2ss

Video: C’s aboard CVN-72.

[surfgun]

True. See this thread.
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=67117

[JA Boomer]

Six C’s aboard CVN 72.

And rumour has it filming for Top Gun 2 as well ;)

[surfgun]

Six C’s aboard CVN 72.
https://news.usni.org/2018/08/27/f-3...braham-lincoln

[Versus]

Nothing beats DIY, well done boys and girls.

https://hackaday.com/2018/08/23/mari...ollar-fighter/

[Skywatcher]

I believe the word used in the actual legislation was suspended or something more temporary than blocked. That said, the non delivery of the first two F-35s seems to be a precursor to Turkey's membership in the program coming under review. In fact the reports to be submitted in 90 days from what I understand are to address the damage to the program by removing Turkey, among other things. There was already bipartisan support for withholding the F-35 from Turkey before Trump drew a line in the sand over the good pastor. Now that Trump is onboard, and also given that Recep has invested too much in the situation to back down, it seems exceedingly likely that there will be further Congressional action on the issue and sans pastor, it seems all but assured any retaliation will be signed off on by Trump.

Until 45 gets bored and compromises/drops the whole pastor farce (with the increasing Special Counsel storm, he's probably going to try to get a Singapore summit equivalent with Erdogan that the media mouthpieces will spin and spin come October).

[Josh]

'blocked'

Tyler Rogoway once shows that he's the stupidest smart person in defense journalism (note how the 2019 NDAA says delivery is blocked until those make work reports are suspended to Congress).

I believe the word used in the actual legislation was suspended or something more temporary than blocked. That said, the non delivery of the first two F-35s seems to be a precursor to Turkey's membership in the program coming under review. In fact the reports to be submitted in 90 days from what I understand are to address the damage to the program by removing Turkey, among other things. There was already bipartisan support for withholding the F-35 from Turkey before Trump drew a line in the sand over the good pastor. Now that Trump is onboard, and also given that Recep has invested too much in the situation to back down, it seems exceedingly likely that there will be further Congressional action on the issue and sans pastor, it seems all but assured any retaliation will be signed off on by Trump.

[Skywatcher]

the saga continues....

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...-35s-to-turkey

No Stealth For You!: Trump Signs Defense Bill That Blocks Transfer Of F-35s To Turkey

just a snipit...

The language in the law requires a written review within 90 days on Turkish-U.S. relations, including the use of Incirlik Air Base by American forces, as well as a risk assessment associated with delivering F-35s to Turkey as well as other platforms and weapons systems. It reads in part:

Assessment of impacts on other United States weapon systems and platforms operated jointly with the Republic of Turkey" for the following

(ii) the Patriot surface-to-air missile system;

(iii) the CH–47 Chinook heavy lift helicopter;

(iv) the AH–64 Attack helicopter;

(v) the H–60 Black Hawk utility helicopter; and

(vi) the F–16 Fighting Falcon aircraft.

Only once these documents are delivered can a reevaluation of the restrictions be made.

The first Turkish F-35 has already been delivered, but it will be some time before the jets actually migrate to Turkey as Turkish F-35 pilot training is just being spun up at Luke AFB in Arizona.

Secretary of Defense James Mattis was opposed to blocking the transfer on the grounds that Turkey is still a regional strategic ally of the United States and that it would add to the F-35 program's cost and potentially disrupt its supply chain among other factors. But rhetoric emanating from Ankara doesn't point to the possibility of a repeal of the embargo anytime soon, as both Trump and Erdogan squabble over the return of religious leaders in each other's countries.

Tyler Rogoway once shows that he's the stupidest smart person in defense journalism (note how the 2019 NDAA says delivery is blocked until those make work reports are suspended to Congress).

[bfng3569]

Yes. Not only would this lead to a disruption of the parts stream sourced from Turkey, since new parts would have to be certified, it also means that a new European site for engine support would have to be made available. However it is worth the cost of not letting the technology potentially fall into Russian hands IMO.

The Daily Sabah states that Alp Aviation, AYESAS, Kale Aviation, Kale Pratt & Whitney, and Turkish Aerospace Industries are all producing components for the F-35 program. By some accounts, it could take up to two years to re-source these components to manufacturers in the U.S. or in other F-35 customer counties. In addition, one of three planned engine maintenance facilities in Europe to provide depot-level service for the F135 engine that powers the F-35 is located in Turkey. The other two will be stood up in Norway and The Netherlands.

[bfng3569]

My understanding is that while two aircraft have been 'delivered', in reality they are at Luke AFB where the first Turk pilots were training and are not actually in Turkish possession. Is that the case? Because otherwise it seems certain that any copies in actual Turkish possession get sold off to highest bidder as part of the current political fight.

I believe you are correct, yes.

[Josh]

... doesn't Turkey also have a maintenance center that was supposed to support other EU countries?...

Yes. Not only would this lead to a disruption of the parts stream sourced from Turkey, since new parts would have to be certified, it also means that a new European site for engine support would have to be made available. However it is worth the cost of not letting the technology potentially fall into Russian hands IMO.