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  • Stitch
    replied
    Originally posted by Triple C View Post
    So if the pilot parachutes into a cold place, cross fingers and remember SERE?
    I'm sure Chogy ot Jimmy has a better handle on this than I do, but the Air Force usually goes into an active theater of operations with some pre-positioned CSAR assets so, hopefully, the pilots aren't on the ground for very long if they do punch out. For instance, when that F-15E went down in Libya a few years ago, one of the pilots was rescued within hours of hitting the ground by an MV-22. The other one ended up with some friendly locals, and didn't get picked-up until the next day.

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  • Aryajet
    replied
    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
    Uh, I've never "deserted" anything. I was a US Navy Surface Warfare Officer, or "SWO" for 25 years. I now live in the Sonora Desert. So I am "desertswo."
    Desertswo Sir.

    Just came back to this thread and noticed my ignorant mistake on misspelling your name. Since the Edit option is no longer available I'm unable to correct it. No disrespect was meant or implied and i hope you accept my sincere apology.

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  • Triple C
    replied
    So if the pilot parachutes into a cold place, cross fingers and remember SERE?

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  • desertswo
    replied
    Originally posted by Triple C View Post
    I suppose G-suits provide pretty good insulation for the cold. Jeez, now that you said it, it's pretty obvious.
    I hope you weren't referring to the standard Navy G-1 leather one. Even if you could wear it in the cockpit, it's not insulated in any way. Mostly it's a heavy windbreaker. I'm not an aviator but I have one given to me by my CO in Constellation for a job well done. I never wore it on active duty as I wasn't qualified to, but it's kind of my standard hanging out around outside in the desert winter. It's warm enough without being suffoctating, and it hides my .45 well enough, but I wouldn't want to try to survive in a blizzard wearing it.

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  • Triple C
    replied
    I suppose G-suits provide pretty good insulation for the cold. Jeez, now that you said it, it's pretty obvious.

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  • gunnut
    replied
    Originally posted by Triple C View Post
    Noob question. What goes into a good flight jacket for a jet pilot? Are they supposed to be insulated against cold temperatures? Fire resistant? Water proof?
    You mean G suit? I don't think fighter pilots wear a jacket while flying. Commercial pilots have pressurized cabins and climate control so they wear casual.

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  • Triple C
    replied
    Noob question. What goes into a good flight jacket for a jet pilot? Are they supposed to be insulated against cold temperatures? Fire resistant? Water proof?

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  • Tamara
    replied
    Originally posted by frag2k4 View Post
    Thank you for the reply, i suspected i might have been right but yes i could have arranged my thoughts better, so hope this will help
    The main character is piloting an F-4 1st generation unit its slow and bulky more akin to a tank it has a sealed cockpit that relys on external cameras to see and the processors prevent quick reactions.
    The F-22 is a 3rd gen unit it has FAR superior handling and manouvourability and power output. The Mk1 eyeball might see the unit but by then he would be dead, he needs to catch the unit when it least expects it.
    Both units use 'super carbon' frames but the F-22 has the standard radar absorbing paint to hide from radar.

    The scenario is this: The main character is in a simulated battle trying to flush a city of invaders, he knows the layout of the city from his radar, but can't track this single F-22. My theory is, if you know the terrain layout you could track a ground based 'stealth' craft by sending out a type of radar/sonar pulse, as this hits the buildings around it, they would show up on the screen by bouncing back the waves, but if the F-22 were in range of the pulse its paint would absorb the waves and anything behind the unit relative to the F-4 sending out the waves would not show up, the pilot could then deduce from what is not showing on the radar when is clearly should be where the unit is.........
    If I had the time and materials, if I wanted to go after a ground hugging aircraft, I would do things to compound his flying at that low altitude, force him up, like barrage balloons, cables, smoke. Maybe angle, to show a "building" on his scopes, irons on the ground if he's flying by his own radar.

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  • Tamara
    replied
    Originally posted by frag2k4 View Post
    .......now if the stealth craft were an 18m tall robot that spends it time on the ground, could the stealth field be compromised by some type of radar/sonar hybrid when the unit is in say an urban environment by what doesn't show up on the screen, example: radar pulse, F-22 absorbs waves, building behind the unit doesn't show up on the scope.

    Sorry if this is a stupid question or classified, if the later please delete this and I will just assume i'm correct for the sake of my stories narrative.
    Okay, some basic stealth theories, real, theoretical, conceptual.

    Absorbing or non reflecting. That could be like special paint or it could be like material like something built out of wood.

    Reflect away from the source. Take his radar pulse and reflect it up, down, in a direction so his system doesn't receive it.

    Another aspect to both these "theories" is to take his radar pulse and have your skin so designed that the signal gets bounced further and further into the passages in the skin and not back out. Ie, picture the surface of the skin as lots of tiny open bottom isoceles triangles. The incoming radar pulse is constantly reflected into that "canyon", not outward. If it is reflected outward at all, it is so weak it does not get back to the receiver.

    Bend the beams around the aircraft.....this would cloaking device stuff.

    Program yourself out of his system. There are number of approaches to this, some real, some fiction, but essentially, one is "telling" his system to disregard the return. His system is picking you up, but it is not reporting you to the operator because it has been told to disregard. What would be an example? Flying on the deck, lost in the sea clutter.

    Now this can get somewhat directly into what you are asking. Something that spends a lot of time on the ground. Know your terrain, know where radar is less effective, perhaps know where there might be shadows one can hide in.

    Are there other approaches? Without a doubt but one thing to keep in mind: for all the ways there are to hide from radar, there are many more ways to defeat the methods being used.....it's just probably a question of whether or not he has the time and money to build such a system.

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  • frag2k4
    replied
    Thank you for the reply, i suspected i might have been right but yes i could have arranged my thoughts better, so hope this will help
    The main character is piloting an F-4 1st generation unit its slow and bulky more akin to a tank it has a sealed cockpit that relys on external cameras to see and the processors prevent quick reactions.
    The F-22 is a 3rd gen unit it has FAR superior handling and manouvourability and power output. The Mk1 eyeball might see the unit but by then he would be dead, he needs to catch the unit when it least expects it.
    Both units use 'super carbon' frames but the F-22 has the standard radar absorbing paint to hide from radar.

    The scenario is this: The main character is in a simulated battle trying to flush a city of invaders, he knows the layout of the city from his radar, but can't track this single F-22. My theory is, if you know the terrain layout you could track a ground based 'stealth' craft by sending out a type of radar/sonar pulse, as this hits the buildings around it, they would show up on the screen by bouncing back the waves, but if the F-22 were in range of the pulse its paint would absorb the waves and anything behind the unit relative to the F-4 sending out the waves would not show up, the pilot could then deduce from what is not showing on the radar when is clearly should be where the unit is.

    I hope this is a bit clearer, but thank you again zraver, i can at least keep this idea in my story. :wors:

    Leave a comment:


  • zraver
    replied
    Please go to the introduction thread and introduce yourself.

    Also next time, slow down and organize your thoughts better. If I understand you.

    yes, if you know that X (building) is supposed to be at Y (location) and you cannot detect part of it, then you can correctly surmise that part of the building is being masked by something, even if you cannot see that something.

    However, in a city where are you going to have LOS long enough that the Mk 1 eye ball can't see the mecha that is masking the building? If the mecha has some sort of light cloaking in addition to radar and IR? then the answer is different.

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  • frag2k4
    replied
    Ok not sure if this is the right forum for this but since it has to do with the F-22 stealth paint and it will be a strange question so sorry.

    I have just started writing a bit of Fanfic based on a computer game, in this story the nations of the world use bi pedal mechas instead of aircraft, but all are based on our worlds planes, E.g Americans use F-4, F-15, F-22 TSF (tactical surface fighter) Euro use EF-2000 TSF ect. Now I think im right in saying that the radar absorbent paint of the F-22 works more to do with the fact the craft is in the air where the radar waves don't hit anything else but the plane, now if the stealth craft were an 18m tall robot that spends it time on the ground, could the stealth field be compromised by some type of radar/sonar hybrid when the unit is in say an urban environment by what doesn't show up on the screen, example: radar pulse, F-22 absorbs waves, building behind the unit doesn't show up on the scope.

    Sorry if this is a stupid question or classified, if the later please delete this and I will just assume i'm correct for the sake of my stories narrative.

    Leave a comment:


  • Triple C
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    BTW: Looking at the pic. AR posted I think I wouldn't mind flying as Ball Turret Gunner few times, it has panoramic view. :D

    I think not.....

    Remembering World War Two Airmen: Ball Turret Gunners---- A Breed Apart
    I was going to post the poem when I read "ball turret gunner", but I see AR's link already quoted The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner in its entirety. Well, I can always post it redundantly.

    From my mother's sleep I fell into the State,
    And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
    Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
    I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
    When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

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  • desertswo
    replied
    Originally posted by Doktor View Post
    C'mon Captain, you had a desert or two.
    Yes, with two letters "S."

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  • Doktor
    replied
    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
    Uh, I've never "deserted" anything. I was a US Navy Surface Warfare Officer, or "SWO" for 25 years. I now live in the Sonora Desert. So I am "desertswo."
    C'mon Captain, you had a desert or two.

    Leave a comment:

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