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  • jlvfr
    replied
    All true, older weaker cats, but remember they were launching 18-19000pound A-4s (loaded). An F-18E weights around 47000 (loaded) so the needs for wind/cat are gonna scale up. Say you can launch an F-18 with 4 AAMs. For strike purposes that carrier is out of business...

    Damn.. now I really wanna know this :(

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  • Dreadnought
    replied
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    But with what load? As for nature, remember the argentinians who tried to launch A-4s to attack the RN in the Falklands. An area that is always windy all of a sudden couldn't provide enough wind to launch an A-4, even with a single bomb...
    IMO, That would depend upon the mission. The cats are adjusted to the weight of the aircraft with other considerations such as load out etc. You also have to remember that the Argies had a third hand carrier built during WWII that served not only the Royal Navy but also the Royal Netherlands Navy.So the Brits already had a good idea of her performance with poor wind flow over the deck. Catapult tech has come a long way since that ship was built. And yes, they do state that poor winds attributed to the failure of them to launch against the Brits so then it would require them to turn into the wind and speed up. However, we will never know how this would have turned out since the Brits bloodied their nose sinking the Belgrano first which forced the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo into port seeking safety. Little did they know that HMS Spartan was busy tracking her with orders to sink her as well. It iturned out better that they ran for port instead of loosing another capital ship and perhaps even more lives antiquated as it may be.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Oct 10,, 19:20.

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  • jlvfr
    replied
    Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Disagree, you can launch planes from 20 knots of wind over the deck. Pending, mother nature herself could supply more then half if not enough wind lift to launch planes without driving the carrier into the wind. Just face the wind if need be.
    But with what load? As for nature, remember the argentinians who tried to launch A-4s to attack the RN in the Falklands. An area that is always windy all of a sudden couldn't provide enough wind to launch an A-4, even with a single bomb...

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  • Andrey Egorov
    replied
    Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    It is quite possible that a couple of Aegis escorts could shoot down 24 missiles - I think a few Oscars ( 2-3 x 24) would be needed for a sure kill. If they get a CVN kill, what would be done to their bases in response? (the Oscars would be sunk for sure, but what else?)
    I can't tell you the story, but I know the final - worldwide radioactive wasteland

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  • Andrey Egorov
    replied
    Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Possible and questionable, she would normally have atleast one DDG with her. AEGIS is a very good tracking system that shares info to other ships. Oscar could be hit from a direction shes not even watching. As mentioned anything is possible, its the reaction time that counts most once a launch is detected.
    The submarine itself is expendable after the salvo. It was intended to fire all its missiles at once and run away immediately as fast as it can. If it makes home - fine, otherwise, carrier-submarine exchange is pretty valuable. The same tactic was developed for 1144's
    We'll never know how efficiently large Shipwreck salvo can defeat AEGIS or vice versa which makes me quite happy.

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  • Dreadnought
    replied
    Air groups on the Nimitz Class carriers can launch just about anything.
    Attached Files

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  • USSWisconsin
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey Egorov View Post
    I meant 24 Oscar's Shipwrecks. I can hardly believe anything hostile can get inside carrier escort group. Only a 24-missile salvo from 200 nm can succeed, imo
    It is quite possible that a couple of Aegis escorts could shoot down 24 missiles - I think a few Oscars ( 2-3 x 24) would be needed for a sure kill. If they get a CVN kill, what would be done to their bases in response? (the Oscars would be sunk for sure, but what else?)

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  • Dreadnought
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey Egorov View Post
    I meant 24 Oscar's Shipwrecks. I can hardly believe anything hostile can get inside carrier escort group. Only a 24-missile salvo from 200 nm can succeed, imo
    Possible and questionable, she would normally have atleast one DDG with her. AEGIS is a very good tracking system that shares info to other ships. Oscar could be hit from a direction shes not even watching. As mentioned anything is possible, its the reaction time that counts most once a launch is detected. But you can pretty much state that any launch detected will meet with immediate reprisal. Just one shot could start an entire shooting match. Is it worth it?
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Oct 10,, 18:22.

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  • Andrey Egorov
    replied
    Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
    IMO, Anyhting is possible but the CVN is not without her own monitioring systems for subs. Plus Oscar would have to approach and get by her sub escorts which would make it not only diffacult but could also easily give the CVN a heads up once a torp launch is detected. Damage control in the USN is essential.
    I meant 24 Oscar's Shipwrecks. I can hardly believe anything hostile can get inside carrier escort group. Only a 24-missile salvo from 200 nm can succeed, imo

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  • Dreadnought
    replied
    IMO, Anyhting is possible but the CVN is not without her own monitioring systems for subs. Plus Oscar would have to approach and get by her sub escorts which would make it not only diffacult but could also easily give the CVN a heads up once a torp launch is detected. The CVN can manuver or speed up very quickly You can pretty much bet once launched, Oscar probably has several torps coming at her in reprisal.

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  • drhuy
    replied
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    Some people here seem to think only of "sinking the carrier". But you don't have to sink it, do you? Simply remove it from combat. A hit on the flight deck, or the island, or an elevator, in short, any hit tthat prevents the carrier from operating planes, and that's it. No more carrier. Also, how much speed does the carrier need to launch fighters with a usefull weapons load? 30knots? Loose the rudder or a propeller...
    not that simple, you can ask those kamikaze pilots

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  • Andrey Egorov
    replied
    Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Disagree, you can launch planes from 20 knots of wind over the deck. Pending, mother nature herself could supply more then half if not enough wind lift to launch planes without driving the carrier into the wind. Just face the wind if need be.

    Hitting the island would damage the bridges, but the Air Boss and all related equipment have counterparts and can still launch. You have a Boss at deck level as well that arranges the catapult load and execution. One elevator damaged wouldnt do much when you still have three others. On the Nimitz class they are located at the deck edges 3 on the starboard side and one aft on the port side. And there are four cats on the carriers. All redundant.

    Anyone that has never been aboard one would be amazed at their design and redundancies. This is why the USN builds the best. Many decades of practice and leaning.
    Originally posted by surfgun View Post
    4 catapults
    4 elevators
    4 propellers
    2 rudders
    1 Island

    The carrier can operate without one of each, while operating with it's task force. Plus good damage control could patch up a random hole in the flight deck.
    Does this mean single Oscar can't put a carrier out of operation?

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  • surfgun
    replied
    4 catapults
    4 elevators
    4 propellers
    2 rudders
    1 Island

    The carrier can operate without one of each, while operating with it's task force. Plus good damage control could patch up a random hole in the flight deck.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dreadnought
    replied
    Disagree, you can launch planes from 20 knots of wind over the deck. Pending, mother nature herself could supply more then half if not enough wind lift to launch planes without driving the carrier into the wind. Just face the wind if need be.

    Hitting the island would damage the bridges, but the Air Boss and all related equipment have counterparts and can still launch. You have a Boss at deck level as well that arranges the catapult load and execution. One elevator damaged wouldnt do much when you still have three others. On the Nimitz class they are located at the deck edges 3 on the starboard side and one aft on the port side. And there are four cats on the carriers. All redundant.

    Anyone that has never been aboard one would be amazed at their design and redundancies. This is why the USN builds the best. Many decades of practice and leaning.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Oct 10,, 17:27.

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  • Andrey Egorov
    replied
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    Some people here seem to think only of "sinking the carrier". But you don't have to sink it, do you? Simply remove it from combat. A hit on the flight deck, or the island, or an elevator, in short, any hit tthat prevents the carrier from operating planes, and that's it. No more carrier. Also, how much speed does the carrier need to launch fighters with a usefull weapons load? 30knots? Loose the rudder or a propeller...
    Exactly my point!

    Leave a comment:

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