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F/A-18 Super Hornet

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  • OK, so both of you make valid points and the chance of a swarm of Backfires attacking is minimal.

    I guess I just wanted to see pimped out Tomcats whenever I go to airshows.

    But I guess I I have to begrudgingly admit that the Admirals know more about naval tactics than I do.

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    • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
      I think one of the biggest reasons why the long-range interceptor capabilities of the Tomcat were allowed to lapse was a lack of mission. There wasn't any massed regiments of Backfire bombers standing by to pounce on the CVBG's anymore.

      Otherwise it's likely that the DoD would've chosen one of the myriad Tomcat upgrade proposals that Grumman put out.
      Good analysis.

      The F-14's primary mission and reason for being was "fleet defense": protect the Navy from any Soviet airborne threats, particularly the supersonic TU-22M/26 with it's "Kitchen" ASM; hence, it's employment of the long-range AIM-54. It was never really designed to be a "dogfighter", though it could definitely hold it's own agianst third-gen Soviet fighters (and even some fourth-gen fighters), but once the Soviet Union folded, and Russia stopped fielding fleets of supersonic bombers, the F-14 kind of lost it's raison d'Ítre. It was still a decent fighter, but the US Navy no longer needed a specialized interceptor anymore; it was more economical to build a multi-purpose aircraft that could occasionally chase off threatening aircraft when necessary, hence the F-18A-G. Underpowered, perhaps, but still more than a match for 90% of the aircraft flying right now, especially with the Navy's superior training and experience.
      "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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      • Ahhh the Enhanced Performance Engine should give the Super Hornet more power and trust. I want EPE Engines for the Super Hornet!

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        • So far it's been a failure AFAIK ... of course they can be further enhanced for a nominal price :)

          Originally posted by Steven Jaime View Post
          Ahhh the Enhanced Performance Engine should give the Super Hornet more power and trust. I want EPE Engines for the Super Hornet!

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          • Originally posted by Steven Jaime View Post
            Ahh, ok the Super Hornet had many improvements, like going into high AoA. Yes the Hornet virants have that drag problem but the conformal fuel tanks wil make the Super Hornet not draggy and create adding lift. But what do you mean underpowered?
            Improvement of Super Hornet over the original is not in the airframe performance, but in stealth and sensor.

            Super Hornet is not a bigger Hornet. It's a completely new fighter that looks like the Hornet. It was designed with stealth in mind (but not to the extent of the F-22), and employing newer avionics.

            Sure, Hornets are excellent turning fighters. But just like the Zero, the trick is to NOT engage them in a turning fight in the first place. Off load the turn to missiles like we outsource manufacturing to China.
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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            • Originally posted by GGTharos View Post
              So far it's been a failure AFAIK ... of course they can be further enhanced for a nominal price :)
              What's AFAIK?

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              • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                Improvement of Super Hornet over the original is not in the airframe performance, but in stealth and sensor.

                Super Hornet is not a bigger Hornet. It's a completely new fighter that looks like the Hornet. It was designed with stealth in mind (but not to the extent of the F-22), and employing newer avionics.

                Sure, Hornets are excellent turning fighters. But just like the Zero, the trick is to NOT engage them in a turning fight in the first place. Off load the turn to missiles like we outsource manufacturing to China.
                It's a hornet but its considered a entirely a new aircraft. But more advanced carries larger payload and increased capabilities in air superiority and ground attack. But replaced 4 fighters. Lower RCS, but i'd want to see some EPE Engines to increase more power on the Super Hornet, 20% more thrust will do the trick. :Dancing-Banana: ;)

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                • Originally posted by Steven Jaime View Post
                  What's AFAIK?
                  As Far As I Know.
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                  • AFAIK = As Far As I Know

                    And 20 percent more thrust will do what trick?

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                    • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                      AFAIK = As Far As I Know

                      And 20 percent more thrust will do what trick?
                      Increase power, increase Air to air performance against faster, high flying enemy planes. Accelerate better and allow better intercept.
                      Last edited by Steven Jaime; 10 Jun 13,, 21:25.

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                      • Originally posted by Steven Jaime View Post
                        Increase power, increase Air to air performance against faster, high flying enemy planes. Accelerate better and allow better intercept. This is a upgrade we really need.
                        What for?
                        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                        • Originally posted by Steven Jaime View Post
                          Increase power, increase Air to air performance against faster, high flying enemy planes. Accelerate better and allow better intercept. This is a upgrade we really need.
                          why?

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                          • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                            What for?
                            Super Hornet, it's called the Enhanced Performance Engine gives the Super Bug a 1:1 T/W Ratio.

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                            • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              why?
                              Why? it's there in the reply that's what the engines do with the 20% increase in thrust!

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                              • No, it really won't. You can shove two of those inside a single F-15C engine (that would be some version of the F100-PW-220, BTW, possibly the E or the U), and a single Eagle engine generates about 25000lbf thrust.

                                You might figure 'hey, that EPE will generate 26000lbf, it'll go faster and higher!'.

                                Sadly, things just don't work this way. At altitude there is a significant pressure loss that causes scary loss of thrust in jet engines. This can be overcome with a good intake, at least to some degree. The Eagle has such an inlet - it's probably the biggest inlet on anything that isn't a MiG-25 or 31. It's bigger than the tomcat's even, IIRC. The hornet has a fixed intake, which is generally far less efficient for higher altitude operations ie. pressure recovery is much lower, and thus there is a higher drop-off in thrust.

                                Finally, the hornet's aerodynamics just aren't built for speed - it's made to carry a lot of stuff long distances, and it's only half-good at that, too. Having a more powerful engine means having an engine that also consumes more fuel, so if you use the extra power you lose range.

                                The hornet will still get crushed by a real interceptor in that sort of fight, as long as the interceptor is a Golden Eagle, Su-35, or something along those lines. It's not made to compete with those platforms ( ... but there's where tactics can come in).

                                Originally posted by Steven Jaime View Post
                                Increase power, increase Air to air performance against faster, high flying enemy planes. Accelerate better and allow better intercept.

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