F/A-18 Super Hornet

[Andrey Egorov]

Wow! MKV-R tehnology? Is this a proven technology with the P-700s?

Not really MKV, all P-700's are equal before launch. They elect leader after launch, presumably on some internal parameters.

For the sub to have ANY chance at survival, it has to beat feet to get out of the area as soon as he launches from long range, which leaves the torpedo unguided and moving in a straight line...good luck hitting anything at range.

Yes, been discussed; as soon as the "torpedo" leaves the tube, it's pretty much an unguided underwater rocket that will be lucky to hit anything at range, especially if the target is manuevering.

It's not quite right. Shkval moves in short jumps, stopping to correct its course. It just can't travel too far

[Stitch]

For the sub to have ANY chance at survival, it has to beat feet to get out of the area as soon as he launches from long range, which leaves the torpedo unguided and moving in a straight line...good luck hitting anything at range.

Yes, been discussed; as soon as the "torpedo" leaves the tube, it's pretty much an unguided underwater rocket that will be lucky to hit anything at range, especially if the target is manuevering.

[Jimmy]

Really? What's the lowdown on it? I haven't heard much, but the idea sounds like a carrier-hunter's wet dream.

For the sub to have ANY chance at survival, it has to beat feet to get out of the area as soon as he launches from long range, which leaves the torpedo unguided and moving in a straight line...good luck hitting anything at range.

[Zinja]

Agreed


Only one P-700 in a salvo goes subsonic on high profile trajectory. If it hit, another one lifts up from low profile. The rest go 20 feet above the surface in silence at mach 2+
Again, I'm happy we'll never know how efficient AEGIS is

Wow! MKV-R tehnology? Is this a proven technology with the P-700s?

[omon]

think of it as underwater canon, not torpedo,

[Andrey Egorov]

Really? What's the lowdown on it? I haven't heard much, but the idea sounds like a carrier-hunter's wet dream.

Only if you're vile enough to attack the blind. Range less than 20 miles ruin it's carrier-hunter capability. But if you catch another submarine that's unaware of your presence that near you can count it's dead.

[Andrey Egorov]

what i was trying to say is not about technical aspect but about operational one. You seem to indicate that by using quantity (salvo) one can overcome the fleet defense. so I reminded you that USN has much higher number of both platforms and weapons, both offensive and defensive, against russian fleet.

The fact that the leading missile lifts up makes little sense coz they still need midcourse update anyway, the onboard radars only work in the final phase no matter how high it flies.

Yes, carriers are physically big, but it doesnt necessarily mean they will stand out clearly, especially from hundred miles away. When the Argentine hit the Atlantic Conveyor, they first thought they got one of the british carriers.

After all, its all about system vs. system.

I don't get about midcourse updates, P-700's are claimed completely autonomous after launch in salvo, "fire and forget" weapon, all guidance is provided by a missile that goes subsonic on high profile trajectory with radar working all the way.
P-700's operate in temporary network, distributing targets between them and developing tactic of attack according to program loaded before launch. A P-700 can define the type of a ship it "sees" and the formation it's in, i.e. whether it's a convoy or a carrier group. The main computer of missile is still evolving, the software is improving day by day.

My point is ship not equipped with AEGIS can't defeat a P-700, it's formidable weapon against single ship, almost unstoppable. A salvo of P-700's is even more dangerous.

[Pakmiran]

One of the most ridiculously ineffective weapons ever.

Really? What's the lowdown on it? I haven't heard much, but the idea sounds like a carrier-hunter's wet dream.

[USSWisconsin]

It's inevitible for this discussion to turn into a debate on fleet air defense. That's part of the F-18 E/F's job as the replacement for the legendary F-14. As such, it will encounter likely threats from Soviet style tactics to overwhelm the carrier group. Then we get into the other aspects of fleet air defense, and then the tactics developed to counter that. And so on and so forth.

This just proves that we at WAB do not look at a single weapon system, ie the "vs threads" that populate other forums but get locked here quickly. We look at the integrated defense network, including logistics. It's a lot more interesting than compare numbers like speed, climb rate, and turn rate. Don't you think so? ;)

WAB's discussions on weapons systems are much more analytical than most, I beleive the well rounded and probing studies of systems here are extremely educational, I am sure the people who design and use them would be interested in some of the insights that we have come up with on this forum. I know that I have learned a lot in the few years I have been involved, and I am very grateful for the opportunity to participate.

[Dreadnought]

. F-4 was the ugliest fighter in USN service...EVER!!!

Disagree the F-4 Phantom was a beautiful aircraft. I can think of others that would fit the ugly label but thats not one of them IMO.

[drhuy]

A carrier group isn't that small target, Tu-95 cruising at 11000m can track it long enough to make a direction to the submarine. Once launched, P-700's aim themselves or even define and redefine targets themselves. That's the idea. P-800's are even more sophisticated though much shorter-handed. Though Hawkeye can decrease chances of attack's success dramatically if it can detect the entire salvo from above and let AEGIS time to prepare.



You launch a salvo against a small object that travels subsonic at 100 nm away? Are you able to identify the type of the missile? Once you take it down and another P-700 lifts up, or another two dozens appear on the horizon 20-30 nm away you must fire everything you have in 40 to 60 seconds to try to put 5-ton, 2-mach fireballs off their course.

what i was trying to say is not about technical aspect but about operational one. You seem to indicate that by using quantity (salvo) one can overcome the fleet defense. so I reminded you that USN has much higher number of both platforms and weapons, both offensive and defensive, against russian fleet.

The fact that the leading missile lifts up makes little sense coz they still need midcourse update anyway, the onboard radars only work in the final phase no matter how high it flies.

Yes, carriers are physically big, but it doesnt necessarily mean they will stand out clearly, especially from hundred miles away. When the Argentine hit the Atlantic Conveyor, they first thought they got one of the british carriers.

After all, its all about system vs. system.

[Jimmy]

How does this Oscar locate and identify a carrier 200nm away?


http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/nav...tml#post146822

Follow the thread from
post 107 on

One of the most ridiculously ineffective weapons ever.

[Phoenix10]

This just proves that we at WAB do not look at a single weapon system, ie the "vs threads" that populate other forums but get locked here quickly. We look at the integrated defense network, including logistics. It's a lot more interesting than compare numbers like speed, climb rate, and turn rate. Don't you think so? ;)

Exactly. Much more interesting, and much more realistic. The SH is and will be a very effective weapon system in the system in which it is used.

[Stitch]

AFAIK ALCM is now no longer in use. There are a lot of 'new toys' on the block for B-52's to use.

Correct; the munition of choice these days for stand-off engagements is the AGM-158 JASSM and the Storm Shadow.

[gunnut]

Pretty much the conclusion is the F-18 E/F is much better than people give credit for. It is a 4.5 gen fighter before many others that came into service later like the Eurofighter and the Rafale. A near contemporary is the Gripen, a stealthy 4.5 gen multi-role fighter that can supercruise with external stores, and was in service before many other, more famous models.