F/A-18 Super Hornet

[jlvfr]

How does this Oscar locate and identify a carrier 200nm away?

Aim it at the largest radar/IR signature?

[gunnut]

Perhaps, but you're thinking of a long war. How long did either gulf wars lasted, once the shooting started? That carrier would be out of the war...

If it's a short war, then the other 10 carriers are more than enough for the surge. The USN could surge 6 carriers to duty at the same time. That cannot be sustained over the long haul. But since it's a short war...

[gunnut]

Aim it at the largest radar/IR signature?

Curvature of the earth?

[Aussiegunner]

How does this Oscar locate and identify a carrier 200nm away?

Good point. They would have to rely on an aircraft to target the carrier OTH or rely on a satellite. In a major shooting war with the US neither is likely to survive long enough to do so. Other than that at least one submarine is going to have to get close enough to identify the carrier on radar or sonar then communicate it bace, another tough call given the ASW assets deployed around the CBG.

[Jimmy]

Perhaps, but you're thinking of a long war. How long did either gulf wars lasted, once the shooting started? That carrier would be out of the war...

If the war is that short, then obviously we had a pretty good handle on things even without that carrier, so real repairs could be underway instead of an emergency patch-job.

Aim it at the largest radar/IR signature?

Not from the surface at 200nm away. Off the top of my head I can't remember radar horizon numbers, but without cueing from another source, you're looking at less than half of that range.

Edit: Aaaand, both of these were issues were already covered.

[Aussiegunner]

Not from the surface at 200nm away. Off the top of my head I can't remember radar horizon numbers, but without cueing from another source, you're looking at less than half of that range.

Radar horizon for non-OTH radars depends on the height of the radar mast, just like the visual horizon depends on how high the viewer is. This link shows a graph which relates horizon to height.

File:How far away is the horizon.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see you need to be 100 metres up just to see 100km. There is no way that the masts on a submarine are going to be that high, let alone high enough to see 200nm (about 370km). The Oscar is either going to have to have OTH targetting or is is going to have to get much closer to the carrier. That would probably involve detecting the CBG and getting a bearing, plus a rough range with ESM from the emissions of the ships, with confirmation coming from passive sonar at closer range. I doubt it would use its own active radar or sonar, that would immediately give away its position to the P-3s and it would be sunk.

[GGTharos]

Data link from Ka-32 (or 27? I forget which one is the military variant) with suspended radar, or potentially data link from a Su-33.

Additional sources include the maritime bears as well. The Su-33's job is first and foremost to protect the submarine fleet from airbrone anti-submarine assets. In general fending off fighter/missile attacks on the surface fleet is something the fleet can do on its own.

[drhuy]

I meant 24 Oscar's Shipwrecks. I can hardly believe anything hostile can get inside carrier escort group. Only a 24-missile salvo from 200 nm can succeed, imo

Russian surface warships and subs can launch missile salvo, but carriers can launch 'salvo' of aircrafts too, each aircrafts can launch 'salvo' of missile itself, AEGIS ships also can launch 'salvo' of missiles, carriers themselves can launch 'salvo' of self-defense missiles too, etc. So I dont see a big deal here. Besides, missile launch from subs and surface ships would almost need midcourse update from other sources. And even if somehow the missile get through and hit something, they must make sure that it's the real carrier, not another 'Atlantic Conveyor'.

[Aussiegunner]

Data link from Ka-32 (or 27? I forget which one is the military variant) with suspended radar, or potentially data link from a Su-33.

Additional sources include the maritime bears as well. The Su-33's job is first and foremost to protect the submarine fleet from airbrone anti-submarine assets. In general fending off fighter/missile attacks on the surface fleet is something the fleet can do on its own.

I agree that if the opforce could protect the platform which is to provide OTH guidance to the submarine, then the odds of success would be considerably increased. All the more reason to wallop the SU-XX's bases with sub-launched TLAMS, B-2 and B-52/ALCM strikes.

[Andrey Egorov]

How does this Oscar locate and identify a carrier 200nm away?

A carrier group isn't that small target, Tu-95 cruising at 11000m can track it long enough to make a direction to the submarine. Once launched, P-700's aim themselves or even define and redefine targets themselves. That's the idea. P-800's are even more sophisticated though much shorter-handed. Though Hawkeye can decrease chances of attack's success dramatically if it can detect the entire salvo from above and let AEGIS time to prepare.

Russian surface warships and subs can launch missile salvo, but carriers can launch 'salvo' of aircrafts too, each aircrafts can launch 'salvo' of missile itself, AEGIS ships also can launch 'salvo' of missiles, carriers themselves can launch 'salvo' of self-defense missiles too, etc. So I dont see a big deal here. Besides, missile launch from subs and surface ships would almost need midcourse update from other sources. And even if somehow the missile get through and hit something, they must make sure that it's the real carrier, not another 'Atlantic Conveyor'.

You launch a salvo against a small object that travels subsonic at 100 nm away? Are you able to identify the type of the missile? Once you take it down and another P-700 lifts up, or another two dozens appear on the horizon 20-30 nm away you must fire everything you have in 40 to 60 seconds to try to put 5-ton, 2-mach fireballs off their course.

[Aussiegunner]

A carrier group isn't that small target, Tu-95 cruising at 11000m can track it long enough to make a direction to the submarine. Once launched, P-700's aim themselves or even define and redefine targets themselves. That's the idea. P-800's are even more sophisticated though much shorter-handed. Though Hawkeye can decrease chances of attack's success dramatically if it can detect the entire salvo from above and let AEGIS time to prepare.

You launch a salvo against a small object that travels subsonic at 100 nm away? Are you able to identify the type of the missile? Once you take it down and another P-700 lifts up, or another two dozens appear on the horizon 20-30 nm away you must fire everything you have in 40 to 60 seconds to try to put 5-ton, 2-mach fireballs off their course.

The TU-95 has to survive long enough against the carrier's F-18's to get a location and bearing on the ships and to provide a midcourse update. In the absense of air superiority I don't think that any TU-95 can reasonably be expected to do that. That is even before considering the likelyhood that the TU-95's base will probably have been bombed well before the carrier gets into range.

[Andrey Egorov]

The TU-95 has to survive long enough against the carrier's F-18's to get a location and bearing on the ships and to provide a midcourse update. In the absense of air superiority I don't think that any TU-95 can reasonably be expected to do that. That is even before considering the likelyhood that the TU-95's base will probably have been bombed well before the carrier gets into range.

Once launched P-700 gets no midcource update. A single missile in salvo lifts up to provide the guidance.
Extensive cover by Su-33's will be needed in that big-scale conflict. Though B-52's bombing the airfields can be handled by S-300 and S-400.

[Aussiegunner]

Once launched P-700 gets no midcource update. A single missile in salvo lifts up to provide the guidance.

Interesting, that would work.

Extensive cover by Su-33's will be needed in that big-scale conflict. Though B-52's bombing the airfields can be handled by S-300 and S-400.

B-52s carry 20 conventionally armed ALCM nowdays. They can be fired from well outside the range of the S-300/S-400. That is even before the impact of the B-2s are considered.

AGM-86 ALCM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Andrey Egorov]

B-52s carry 20 conventionally armed ALCM nowdays. They can be fired from well outside the range of the S-300/S-400. That is even before the impact of the B-2s are considered.

AGM-86 ALCM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pretty impressive weapon. The attacked will need dense network of radars and various missile complexes, from S-300 to Tor's and Buk's

[Aussiegunner]

Pretty impressive weapon. The attacked will need dense network of radars and various missile complexes, from S-300 to Tor's and Buk's

Its a pretty small target and there would be a lot of them, as well as TLAMS and JASSM, the later which can be used by B-1B's once the long range SAMS have been destroyed by ALCMs and B-2's. The US cruise missiles and stealth fighters didn't have any trouble butchering the Iraqi defences in downtown Bagdad, which were described as some of the densist in the World. There may be more modern SAMs available now but they would have to provide an exponential improvement in performance to beat the increased US capabilities.