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F-15C vs. Su-30MKI

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  • Insomniac
    replied
    Hmm... point proven.

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  • tphuang
    replied
    Originally posted by Insomniac
    How do you know if it's a ploy or not. You don't know the people that made it. I personally think the F-15C and Su-30 are better in their own areas and it really depends on the pilot. If the two pilots are equal I would guess that the Su-30 would win. Please explain to me why you think the F-15C is better than the Su-30.
    I said su-30mkk definitely cannot beat F-15C, because it's overall quality is just not good at all. mki is a different story though. mki vs F-15C - each side has its advantages: (just my opinion)
    1. mki has better maneouverability, no question
    2. RCS probably similar
    3. without AESA, APG-63 and Bars is probably similar in performance, Bars probably gets the nod for being PAR. with AESA, APG-63 is better.
    4. As for missile, I'd say the accuracy of AMRAAM is better than AA-12

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  • Insomniac
    replied
    How do you know if it's a ploy or not. You don't know the people that made it. I personally think the F-15C and Su-30 are better in their own areas and it really depends on the pilot. If the two pilots are equal I would guess that the Su-30 would win. Please explain to me why you think the F-15C is better than the Su-30.

    Leave a comment:


  • tphuang
    replied
    Originally posted by Insomniac
    http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/comparison-f15-su30-1.html

    I found this link that has a professional comparison of the F-15C and Su-30. It clearly demonstrates the superiority of the Flanker and I now see why the U.S. Airforce desperately needs the F/A-22.
    that's been posted already. It's just a ploy by the Americans to get more funding. There is no way su-30mkk can beat F-15C. su-30mki and F-15C is the right comparison. it just sticks to what flankers are good at - maneouverability.

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  • Insomniac
    replied
    http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/comparison-f15-su30-1.html

    I found this link that has a professional comparison of the F-15C and Su-30. It clearly demonstrates the superiority of the Flanker and I now see why the U.S. Airforce desperately needs the F/A-22.

    Leave a comment:


  • tphuang
    replied
    Okay, this is from Janes defense http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/janes013.htm

    Since 1994 another prototype, aircraft #712, has been undergoing tests with a new, fully upgraded avionics suit including the N011M radar: a derivative of the N011 with a phased-array electronically scanned antenna. Development of the N011M radar (or more exactly the whole new generation of airborne radars in Russia) was preceded with long disputes concerning its design and particularly the type of antenna to be used. Eventually, in the second half of the 1980s the Russians chose the electronic scanning principle for all newly designed aircraft radars. Analyses show that radars with electronic scanning are more expensive than those with mechanical scanning but offer far superior combat capabilities: a multi-channel mode of work (allowing the simultaneous tracking and engaging of many targets), a higher resolution and better jamming resistance. The N011M can track up to 20 targets and engage eight of them simultaneously, with its maximum search range for a fighter-type target being 140-160km. It is currently also being installed in aircraft #711. A new cockpit with four large LCD screens and a wide-angle head-up display (HUD) is being prepared for the ultimate variant of the Su-27M.

    I've always talked about 140-160KM vs F-16 target, but since this is given as search range, I'm guessing this is for any size fighter target, so the track range for a fighter like F-16 is probably even shorter.

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  • tphuang
    replied
    just one thing on BARs, it's radar's capability is no where near the claimed range by some members of this board. Correct if I'm wrong, but this is the numbers I got from the manufacturer's website:
    http://www.niip.info/main.php?page=raz_sky_bars

    Key Technical Specifications of the Units:
    Antenna type: phased
    array with fluid drive
    Maximum deviation angles while
    tracking down a single target, deg.:

    - by azymuth
    +70
    - by the site angle +40
    Scanning area during simultaneous 5.500
    tracking down of targets, sq. deg.
    Scanning area while searching for and locking in a target
    in close maneuver combat, deg.:
    - by azymuth +3; +10
    - by the site angle -15...+40; +7.5

    Receiver

    Channels number 3
    Noise rate, db 3
    Transmitter
    capacity, kwt, not less than
    - impulse 4-5
    - medium 1.2
    - illuminative(radiocorrection) 1
    Programmed signel processor
    Data input speed, mHz 28
    Peak productivity rate while conducting
    "butterfly"-type operations, mln. oper/sec 75
    Radar control processor
    Number of processors 3
    Flash-memory size of the processor, mb 16
    Static memory size of the processor, mb 16
    "Air-to-air" mode
    The fighter's lock-in range of at least, km:
    - at opposite courses 120-140
    - at overtaking courses 60
    "Air-to-surface" mode
    Detection range of at least, km:
    - railway bridge 80-120
    - tanks 40-50
    - torpedo-boat destroyer 120-150
    Max resolution capacity, m circa 10



    KEY MODES OF THE AIRBORNE RADARS OPERATIONS:

    "AIR-TO-AIR"
    Speed search;
    Seach with distance gauging;
    Search and lock-in in the short-range combat mode;
    Tracking down up to 15 targets in order to evaluate the tactical situation and conduct aircraft team operations without search suspension;
    Accurate tracking down of up to 4 targets to ensure weapons application without search suspension;
    Targets illumination and transmission of orders on radiocorrection while guiding missiles;
    Identification of target type by its spectral characteristics;
    Identification of multiple target characteristics without visibility distortion.


    "AIR-TO-SURFACE"
    Terrain mapping in the real beam mode;
    Terrain mapping with the Dopler beam narrowing;
    Terrain mapping with antenna synthetic aperture;
    Selection of ground-based moving targets;
    Gauging coordinates down to the ground-based target;
    Tracking down of up to 2 ground-based targets.

    "AIR-TO-SEA"
    Marine search;
    Far-out marine search;
    Selection of moving marine targets;
    Gauging coordinates down to moving or immobile marine targets.

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  • raptor1992
    replied
    Originally posted by huh_what
    lets say that the maximum range of AMRAAM is 70km. The F/A-22 is flying at mach 1.8 supercruise to aximize the missile capability. The su-30 can detect the F/A-22 within 40 km range. That gives the F/A-22 49 seconds to take down 8 su-30s.

    If we assume that the range of AMRAAM is 50km, that gives the pilot 18 seconds.
    you must be very wrong. how can the radar of su-30 have a chance of detecting f-22. anyhow su-30s would be unable to lock on to the raptor.

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  • canoe
    replied
    Originally posted by huh_what
    lets say that the maximum range of AMRAAM is 70km. The F/A-22 is flying at mach 1.8 supercruise to aximize the missile capability. The su-30 can detect the F/A-22 within 40 km range. That gives the F/A-22 49 seconds to take down 8 su-30s.

    If we assume that the range of AMRAAM is 50km, that gives the pilot 18 seconds.
    Ok assuming that the Su-30's can infact detect the F-22 just under 40k, and odds are if thats the very edge of their detection radius the Su-30's won't have a strong enough radar return to get a missile lock but given the limited information about the F-22's stealth capabilities available this is purely speculation.

    But for the sake of keeping the debate going ;)

    The F-22 in the air-to-air configuration carries 6 AMRAAM's and 2 AIM-9's, it is capable of locking onto all 8 targets and launching its 6 AMRAAM's on them at the same time. Providing all 6 missiles hit their targets the issue would be the 2 remaining Su-30's which would need to be engaged by guns or AIM-9's.

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  • huh_what
    replied
    lets say that the maximum range of AMRAAM is 70km. The F/A-22 is flying at mach 1.8 supercruise to aximize the missile capability. The su-30 can detect the F/A-22 within 40 km range. That gives the F/A-22 49 seconds to take down 8 su-30s.

    If we assume that the range of AMRAAM is 50km, that gives the pilot 18 seconds.

    Leave a comment:


  • huh_what
    replied
    assuming there are no external missles which reduce stealth, 40 km cannot get you 2 cannon kills.

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  • ajaybhutani
    replied
    Originally posted by tphuang
    BARS or sokol vs 0.0027 m^2 RCS
    thnx..

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  • tphuang
    replied
    Originally posted by ajaybhutani
    assuming what radar( BARS/ZHUK etc) and what RCS of F22.. ??
    BARS or sokol vs 0.0027 m^2 RCS

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  • ajaybhutani
    replied
    Originally posted by tphuang
    su-30s and su-35 won't detect F-22 until when F-22 is within 40KM.
    assuming what radar( BARS/ZHUK etc) and what RCS of F22.. ??

    Leave a comment:


  • tphuang
    replied
    Originally posted by huh_what
    it can carry external AMRAAMs but wont that further reduce stealth and manueverability?
    Well from waht i heard, some Russian missiles outrange the AMRAAM although the f/a-22 with AWACs have greater radar range.
    Wouldn't the f/a-22 well be in su's missile range before it can have su's in its cannon range? unless the f/a-22 is so stelthy that su=20's radar cant lock on to it while its in the f/a-22's firing range.

    p.s. What if the 10 su-30s were spread out 36 degrees each so that it made a circle around a f-22? the f-22 can engage multiple targets at once but i doubt it can engabe targets behind it and at the sides at the same time.

    what's your opinion?
    I do not have any solid information as I am only 14 years old. I'm just trying to use common sense.
    su-30s and su-35 won't detect F-22 until when F-22 is within 40KM.

    Leave a comment:

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