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F-15C vs. Su-30MKI

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  • "(Also the helmet sight, of course)".

    Damn, that must be one flexible-assed pilot if he can rotate his head 180 degrees while strapped in tight. ;)

    PS...so far as i recall, only the SU-33 has the aft looking radar.

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    • Originally posted by M21Sniper
      Damn, that must be one flexible-assed pilot if he can rotate his head 180 degrees while strapped in tight. ;)
      He's going to need x-ray vision too, that tunnel isn't see-thru.. ;)
      Originally posted by M21Sniper
      PS...so far as i recall, only the SU-33 has the aft looking radar.
      I think it's the 34/35. I can find out about the 33, but I think it has some passive detectors in the stinger, and it's a much smaller stinger, so I don't think it can hold the N012 package. Trying to keep track of the alphabet soup of the SU variants can be a chore...
      "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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      • Originally posted by highsea
        Supposedly the missile's seeker can be slaved to the aft facing radar for cueing. (Also the helmet sight, of course)

        I am getting more than a little annoyed with this completely asinine scenario of a dogfight at 30-50 meters at Mach 1.5, using a missile with a minimum engagement distance of 1km. Once again, fantasy has superceded reality in this wonderful world of cyberspace.
        well, then highsea, what conditions would you like to play under, that was just an example, what is the typical range and speed for a dogfight
        for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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        • Originally posted by Dima
          well, then highsea, what conditions would you like to play under, that was just an example, what is the typical range and speed for a dogfight
          Dima, I don't play these scenarios. Modern air combat is an extremely complex and dynamic situation. There is no "typical range and speed". It depends on the type of AC, the types of weapons, ECM/ECCM, supporting assets, where the battle is taking place, and about a million other factors. 80% of aircraft that are shot down never even see the missile coming.

          I had a long post with a bunch of different scenarios written, but I decided to just delete it and give you this advice instead: It's a very complicated subject. If you want to learn about it, I suggest you visit one of the forums where fighter pilots hang out. Sniper's A-10 forum and F-16.net are a couple good starting places. If you ask nicely, they might explain some of the basics to you. I'm sure they could do a better job than I can.
          "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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          • "Trying to keep track of the alphabet soup of the SU variants can be a chore..."

            You aint kidding.

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            • Originally posted by highsea
              Dima, I don't play these scenarios. Modern air combat is an extremely complex and dynamic situation. There is no "typical range and speed". It depends on the type of AC, the types of weapons, ECM/ECCM, supporting assets, where the battle is taking place, and about a million other factors. 80% of aircraft that are shot down never even see the missile coming.

              I had a long post with a bunch of different scenarios written, but I decided to just delete it and give you this advice instead: It's a very complicated subject. If you want to learn about it, I suggest you visit one of the forums where fighter pilots hang out. Sniper's A-10 forum and F-16.net are a couple good starting places. If you ask nicely, they might explain some of the basics to you. I'm sure they could do a better job than I can.
              oh, i was talking about a dogfight, because it's an IR missile, but then again, you are correct about there being different scenarios, yea, i was just stating one possible scenario, don't worry, i understand, i just tried to provide an example to show my point
              for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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              • I'm worried about the malaysian aquisition of the sukhoi 30 mkm. I heard it has indian tecnologies in it and TVC and was wondering why they are offering it to other countries. I don't like the idea of other countries getting indian technology, and almost the same varient of fighter as india did and was wondering what you guys think about this.

                My opinion is that the indians successfully created a really good plane and I think russia should sell a different varient to malaysia just like they did to china.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by gangsta540i
                  I'm worried about the malaysian aquisition of the sukhoi 30 mkm. I heard it has indian tecnologies in it and TVC and was wondering why they are offering it to other countries. I don't like the idea of other countries getting indian technology, and almost the same varient of fighter as india did and was wondering what you guys think about this.

                  My opinion is that the indians successfully created a really good plane and I think russia should sell a different varient to malaysia just like they did to china.
                  i think its a good move Theres no deficiency of good stuff that cannot be developed . The russians will take soemn more time and replace the indian and israeli parts with their own and sell it. But if we sell the MKM .clearly we get to export our parts.We will teach them how to fly it . In other words a good beginning of a strategic relationship.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ajaybhutani
                    i think its a good move Theres no deficiency of good stuff that cannot be developed . The russians will take soemn more time and replace the indian and israeli parts with their own and sell it. But if we sell the MKM .clearly we get to export our parts.We will teach them how to fly it . In other words a good beginning of a strategic relationship.

                    I get your point and the malaysians are considered an ally but considering they aren't really threatened by anyone like india is with pakistan and maybe china they really didn't need a fighter as advanced as india's considering india is a large democracy that requires a heavy fighter to update their ageing fighters.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by gangsta540i
                      I'm worried about the malaysian aquisition of the sukhoi 30 mkm. I heard it has indian tecnologies in it and TVC and was wondering why they are offering it to other countries. I don't like the idea of other countries getting indian technology, and almost the same varient of fighter as india did and was wondering what you guys think about this.

                      My opinion is that the indians successfully created a really good plane and I think russia should sell a different varient to malaysia just like they did to china.
                      but it wasn't the Indians who created it, it was the Russians, with Indian software, i think some French and Israeli software

                      but isn't the software in the MKM only Russian, so don't worry, it won't be as advanced as the MKI

                      Ajay, are you saying that the Indians will sell MKI's constructed in India?

                      because they're not allowed to re-export those fighters, and i don't believe that they're allowed to re-export any Russian MKI's already purchased
                      for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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                      • Originally posted by gangsta540i
                        I get your point and the malaysians are considered an ally but considering they aren't really threatened by anyone like india is with pakistan and maybe china they really didn't need a fighter as advanced as india's considering india is a large democracy that requires a heavy fighter to update their ageing fighters.
                        its more of a power projection for them .

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                        • Originally posted by Dima
                          but it wasn't the Indians who created it, it was the Russians, with Indian software, i think some French and Israeli software

                          but isn't the software in the MKM only Russian, so don't worry, it won't be as advanced as the MKI

                          Ajay, are you saying that the Indians will sell MKI's constructed in India?

                          because they're not allowed to re-export those fighters, and i don't believe that they're allowed to re-export any Russian MKI's already purchased
                          The project involved a lot of contribution from the indians too. ( though not as much as the russians but worth a consideration and also worth an appreciation for indian aerospace industry.). Indians cannot export MKI. there has been no such deal. But the indian parts of the MKI will go in as indian parts in MKM. so a sale from us too. then they(Malaysians) will have to come to us for spares. as we will be the ones running the factories near to them and cheaper than russians. They will come to us for training as rite now we are the only AF experienced in these monsters. This will even help india show the buying countries its own indigeneous products like LCa ALH. and alternate orders can be achieved for the indian industry.

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                          • I got another thing thats kinda been on my mind and that is when India has these excercises with other countries i'm wondering why they have to bring their top plane such as the MKI when the other countries can make observations and learn things and find weaknesses in Indias top plane.

                            Instead of bringing the top of the line fighter they should use the lower level k variant so countries won't know much about India's technology. I know they need these excercises to simulate real world fighting but they shouldn't display their top level fighter when they can have the same level as training without giving them any hint of what India has in store.

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                            • go they have any training plans, and with what nations, involving what aircraft?
                              for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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                              • Originally posted by Dima
                                well, then highsea, what conditions would you like to play under, that was just an example, what is the typical range and speed for a dogfight
                                Typical ranges for a dogfight depend. The USAF trains to short, medium and long range fights -- 3k', 6k' and 9k'. Sometimes we'll talk even longer range 12k'. The airspeeds are NEVER above the mach, jets don't turn very well that fast. We normally start around 400-450 indicated around 18k'.

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