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F-15C vs. Su-30MKI

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  • also, Russia has developed a rear-ward firing missile, does anyone know if this is a remodelled version of the AA-11 archer?

    they are also getting their aircraft upgraded by many Israeli companies
    for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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    • Originally posted by Dima
      also, Russia has developed a rear-ward firing missile, does anyone know if this is a remodelled version of the AA-11 archer?
      i think yes.
      they are also getting their aircraft upgraded by many Israeli companies
      u mean russians getting israeli components. I doubt that.

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      • The missile is i believe just a regular AA-11.

        What's different is the pylon, which can rotate 180 degrees to the rear.

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        • oh, that's how, well, that will practically make it invulnerable, i mean a Russian aircraft in dogfighting, i mean, if someone is on your six, boom, pop that thing from your anus to his face, eww, lol,

          is America developing anything like this?

          sorry for the crude humor

          ajay, you heard of the MiG-29 SNIPER? an upgrade controlled by the Israeli's if i'm not mistaken for the Romanian air force's MiG-29's
          for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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          • i havent heard about it,do u have some more info on it?

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            • I question the validity of the rear-firing swivel pylons.

              Seems to me that rotating a pylon in flight would be akin to deploying a big assed air brake.

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              • Originally posted by M21Sniper
                Seems to me that rotating a pylon in flight would be akin to deploying a big assed air brake.
                Not to mention that you will get a heater up your ass while you are waiting for the pylon to rotate.
                "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                • Well assuming the guy has a shot at you i suppose you would, lol.

                  It just seems to me like a good way to lose a LOT of airspeed in trying to achieve a head-on(from the missiles perspective) lock on. Head on engagements are the easiest to evade from what i've been told(because the missile has the smallest heat signiture to work with).

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                  • Originally posted by M21Sniper
                    Well assuming the guy has a shot at you i suppose you would, lol.

                    It just seems to me like a good way to lose a LOT of airspeed in trying to achieve a head-on(from the missiles perspective) lock on. Head on engagements are the easiest to evade from what i've been told(because the missile has the smallest heat signiture to work with).
                    Not to mention the hellacious yaw moment it would put on the airplane to to the assymetry of the aerobraking.

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                    • Originally posted by M21Sniper
                      I question the validity of the rear-firing swivel pylons.
                      Does the pylon actually rotate? This sounds like an extremely clumsy way to approach the problem, I wasn't really taking it seriously. It would make much better sense to have a center pylon that was always facing aft with a fairing in front of it.
                      "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                      • From what i understand, yes, the pylon itself rotates in it's entirety.

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                        • How much damage would a chaff could do to a modern fighter at typical dogfight speeds? Would a scattering of tiny solid flying wing type chunks of reflective metal be effective chaff? Is chaff anything other than (radar) reflective foil?

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                          • Originally posted by M21Sniper
                            From what i understand, yes, the pylon itself rotates in it's entirety.
                            Strange. Here is a description (less than perfect) that's floating around:
                            ...One approach, noted in Jane's, was that the AA-10b shortburn IR ("Alamo B") missile would be mounted on the Su-35's wing on a backward-facing pylon. That would have left the rocket motor nozzle and large control fins facing the airstream. This was then reported to be unsatisfactory because the missile, which requires large aero-surfaces to fly, would have problems firing off backwards through the zero-velocity region as it went on its way. Also, there was damage reported in flight test to the missile due to it having the rocket motor nozzle directed into the relative wind. So the rotated pylon approach with the AA-10b appears to have disqualified itself. The answer was to use the very capable R-73 (AA-11 "Archer") in a simply reverse mount with a booster motor booster-pac attached to the back of the R-73's rocket motor but facing forward. This would allow the booster to rapidly stop the missile in flight from a negative (forward) velocity to zero in a very quick (less than one second). The missile motor then fires and the missile is on its way. The N-014 radar in conjunction with the optical warning receiver can then just pick up the threat, que the missile, and launch the missile.

                            http://www.sci.fi/~fta/Su-27.htm
                            This sounds like the missile is oriented facing the rear, and the booster only has to stop the forward motion- in this case, you would still have the control surfaces facing into the airstream, so maybe the booster acts as a fairing also. You would have to jettison the booster when the main engine fired off, but that's not really a problem...Need a picture...
                            "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                            • Originally posted by highsea
                              Not to mention that you will get a heater up your ass while you are waiting for the pylon to rotate.
                              that's only if you can get a lock on the guy, but, with Russian aircraft's maneuverability, it will be very difficult, although helmet mounted sighting and targetting systems will solve this
                              for MOTHER MOLDOVA

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                              • Dima, think about it. The R-73 is attempting a head-on shot with the chasing AC, who has a tail-on shot at those great big nozzles. Which one presents a better target?
                                "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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