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China flies 2 sixth-gen stealth jets in 24 hrs

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  • China flies 2 sixth-gen stealth jets in 24 hrs

    Fantastic propaganda ... I mean public relations ploy. Got everybody into a panic
    Chimo

  • #2
    I must be old. Frankly, I couldn't muster up the concern that the Chinese have leap frog us. I remember the MiG-25 and the fear it instilled and forced us to come up with the F-14 and F-15. Well, everyone knows the history. Even if everything about these planes are true, it still are only tactical planes, not designed to strategically decide actions.

    God, I'm old.
    Chimo

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    • #3
      China may and probably will 'leapfrog' the US in certain specific areas of defense technology but then the US will do the same to China in other areas. Even during the Soviet era there were niche tech areas where Russia was able to match and sometimes exceed US efforts but in general in lagged overall. What arguable matters more is the comparative tech lead across the entire spectrum of defense technologies and importantly? How well the tech is integrated across all services.

      Plus of course China hasn't fought a war since 1979 and isn't going to be thrilled at how well it's Russia based defense system have performed in the field compared to their NATO counterparts in Ukraine.
      If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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      • #4
        No, the Soviets surpassed us mid-1970s. The T-64 was superior to the M-48 and Centurions. Their artillery outranged ours (and still does). They were leaps and bounds ahead of us in ATGMs. They had more nukes than us. They had more ICBMs than us. They had a larger and better air force (MiG-25s). What's more, they out-numbered us and out-gunned us. But the most damaging of all, the US lost the Vietnam War. The Soviets had the superior morale.
        Chimo

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          No, the Soviets surpassed us mid-1970s. The T-64 was superior to the M-48 and Centurions. Their artillery outranged ours (and still does). They were leaps and bounds ahead of us in ATGMs. They had more nukes than us. They had more ICBMs than us. They had a larger and better air force (MiG-25s). What's more, they out-numbered us and out-gunned us. But the most damaging of all, the US lost the Vietnam War. The Soviets had the superior morale.
          Those are specific systems. Your subs were better and so were your carriers and the 70s saw the Tomcat, Harrier and Hornet entering US service. You also had better satellite surveillance tech and sensors in general. So I'd still argue it was swings and roundabouts.
          If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Monash View Post
            So I'd still argue it was swings and roundabouts.
            Doesn't mean that they didn't have answers and also doesn't mean we didn't fuck up big time. The Soviet answer to our carriers were BACKFIRE bombers! We've fucked up by assuming that they were strategic bombers tasked with attacking the North American mainland. We did not imagine them in the Anti-Ship role ... and hence had no counter! We did not imagine entire regiments of BACKFIREs flying at supersonic speeds at our carriers to launch their ASM before we could shoot them down. They could in theory locked onto our carriers before we could locked onto them.

            The best answer in the 1970s to the question could we win a conventional war in Europe? We don't know.

            Compare that to the already conclusion vis-a-vi these Chinese planes. They're not dog fighters. But is that a bad thing?
            Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 29 Dec 24,, 02:52.
            Chimo

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              Doesn't mean that they didn't have answers and also doesn't mean we didn't fuck up big time. The Soviet answer to our carriers were BACKFIRE bombers! We've fucked up by assuming that they were strategic bombers tasked with attacking the North American mainland. We did not imagine them in the Anti-Ship role ... and hence had no counter! We did not imagine entire regiments of BACKFIREs flying at supersonic speeds at our carriers to launch their ASM before we could shoot them down. They could in theory locked onto our carriers before we could locked onto them.

              The best answer in the 1970s to the question could we win a conventional war in Europe? We don't know.

              Compare that to the already conclusion vis-a-vi these Chinese planes. They're not dog fighters. But is that a bad thing?
              As far as the Chinese '6th gen' plane goes it's too early to be alarmed. The Chinese aren't magicians and they can't dramatically shorten the long lead times these types of projects always have. Hell, their 5th gen J-20 project started 15 years ago and they still only have about 200 of them in service. The F-35 program? Started only 3 years earlier than that and there are now in front line service now? Somewhere between 1000 to 1,200 planes? So just getting a 6th gen plane into the air now isn't going to mean much in terms of capability for at least a decade and half or so.
              If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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