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  • #16
    t.sai ravi vasista
    Bharat Mata Ki Jai

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    • #17
      “How does it compare to the F-16 Block 60/62?”

      Not well at all. The F-16 B-60 has a better range and of course better radar (AESA), much larger payload, an IRST, better strike weapons and the combat proven AIM-120.
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      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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      • #18
        The LCA (or Tejas) is around 70% as capable as the F-16E/F Block-60, comparing the ranges, avionics, weapons, and other systems, the LCA is more on the lines and class of the Taiwanese Indiginous Fighter and the Chinese JF-17.

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        • #19
          “The LCA (or Tejas) is around 70% as capable as the F-16E/F Block-60, comparing the ranges, avionics, weapons, and other systems, the LCA is more on the lines and class of the Taiwanese Indiginous Fighter and the Chinese JF-17.”

          Were did you get that it is 70% as capable as the F-16E/F? It has no IRST as of now, no CFTs, no AESA, lacks the range, payload, top speed and such. It terms of brute performance it does not stack up well with an F-16A/B-MLU-4/B-20 or F-16C/D B-40/42/50/52 much less the F-16C/D B-50/52+.

          That said it does stack up with other Asian light fighters such as the F-CK-1A/B and FC-1.

          “How viable will it be as a fighter jet?”

          Well if it gets inducted it should be fine for the region. The backbone of the PAF’s tactical fighter force will be the FC-1, which the LCA matches up to very well. They should have similar weapons, payloads, ranges, missions, and agility (can’t be sure). Both will use missiles based on the R-77E (the SD-10 uses the same seeker and data-link) along with both likely using missiles slaved to a HMS. Both should be able to use laser guided bombs and self laze.

          For the region it could turn out to be the next F-86E/F v Hunter FGA match up.

          Does anyone have the picture of the LCA brochure with a picture (not mockup) carrying a LITENING LDP? I saw that picture a while ago and forget to save it.
          To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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          • #20
            Troung

            What do you make of the LCA project, do you will be induced in large numbers?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by aryan
              What do you make of the LCA project, do you will be induced in large numbers?
              The unit cost of the LCA is quite large too, I don't know how many the IAF will really induct, especially after the 3-Week Buzz about the IAF Signing a 139 Mirage 2000-5 deal (hey what happened to that deal anyways, I haven't really heard of any signing or anything for some weeks now), so I doubt the number of LCAs being inducted will be more than 200.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Diving Falcon
                The unit cost of the LCA is quite large too, I don't know how many the IAF will really induct, especially after the 3-Week Buzz about the IAF Signing a 139 Mirage 2000-5 deal (hey what happened to that deal anyways, I haven't really heard of any signing or anything for some weeks now), so I doubt the number of LCAs being inducted will be more than 200.
                The 125+ mirage-2000-5s is needed to replace around 125 old Mig-23, Mig-27 ground attack aircrafts which are on the verge of being phased out and not MiG-21s. LCA is a separate issue because LCA is required to replace IAF's 300 old Mig-21s. It has nothing to do with the Mirage deal because 125 Mirages will not be a replacement for 300+ Mig-21s.

                Also accoding to a latest article from Defence News, dated Apr 23, 2004, the IAF currently has a plan to increase it's fighter fleet from 40 squadrons to 60 in the next 10 years. Hence you will see IAF buying a lot of fighter jets in the coming years from abroad, apart from just inducting LCAs.

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                • #23
                  You must realize that the LCA's cost is soon to equal the cost of the Mirage 2000-5, now what would be the point of buying the 126 Mirage 2000-5s and NOT LCAs from 2010?

                  See, France's production line of Mirage 2000-5s is very small, and I mean ranging from 10-15 planes a year! Next, the LCA is entering mass production from 2010!

                  So, since India (HAL) is building those Mirage 2000-5s at home and to be fair the IAF is also buying Mirage 2000-5s from Dassault of France too. So that means, the IAF will be getting around 10 Mirage 2000-5s a year from 2006 (if it signs a deal with France in 2004).

                  So, it'll take the IAF around 12 years to acquire 126 Mirage 2000-5s, so wouldn't it take around 10 years to acquire 220 LCAs?

                  Ideally, I'm sure the IAF is well aware of the Mirage 2000-5's production line, and it wouldn't make any sence to go for the Mirages if the LCA is also available at the same rate, meaning, the LCA is likely affected by this Mirage deal.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Diving Falcon
                    Ideally, I'm sure the IAF is well aware of the Mirage 2000-5's production line, and it wouldn't make any sence to go for the Mirages if the LCA is also available at the same rate, meaning, the LCA is likely affected by this Mirage deal.
                    If India does not buys then how will it replace it's huge numbers of old strike aircrafts (around 125+). The LCA cannot replace them because LCA is not a strike aircraft. LCA is meant to be a replacement for 400 old MiG-21s.

                    As for the problem of limited production line capability, I m sure there will be plans about it. For example currently a brand new production line is being set up in Koraput Orissa (South India) for making components of MKI like the AL-31FP engines ect so the the MKI serial production can go on smoothly. I m sure when LCA enters mass production it will too have it's dedicated production facility.

                    Also according to the current estimates the cost of LCA is around $22 million. That is much lesser than Mirage-2000-5.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by flanker27
                      If India does not buys then how will it replace it's huge numbers of old strike aircrafts (around 125+). The LCA cannot replace them because LCA is not a strike aircraft. LCA is meant to be a replacement for 400 old MiG-21s.

                      As for the problem of limited production line capability, I m sure there will be plans about it. For example currently a brand new production line is being set up in Koraput Orissa (South India) for making components of MKI like the AL-31FP engines ect so the the MKI serial production can go on smoothly. I m sure when LCA enters mass production it will too have it's dedicated production facility.

                      Also according to the current estimates the cost of LCA is around $22 million. That is much lesser than Mirage-2000-5.
                      What about the so-called MCA or PAK-FA, I thought it was supposed to fly in 2009 or something, or how about the SU-30MKI, doesn't it have any strike capability?

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                      • #26
                        What about the so-called MCA or PAK-FA, I thought it was supposed to fly in 2009 or something,
                        What about it? And no, it cannot fly in 2009.

                        or how about the SU-30MKI, doesn't it have any strike capability?
                        Yes it can, but its not primarily inducted in InAF as a Strike fighter!
                        A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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                        • #27
                          Firstly, the 126 Mirage 2000-5 deal hasn't been signed yet, and it has been 5 years since the IAF said it'll sign it, another thing, even if it does sign it, production rate will no go beyond 10 aircraft a year, this is including HAL.

                          Secondly, the LCA-Tejas is also yet to go into production, it has been under development for like 10 years, and after 20 years it'll enter full swing mass production.

                          Finally, the SU-30MKI thing, the first Indian built SU-30MKI isn't set to fly before 2007, this is according to Air Force Monthly.

                          Meaning, the IAF's plans are getting delayed, if it's Pakistan's luck or good fortune, by the time IAF completes it's plan (2020), the PAF will be ready, that is something must be realized.

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                          • #28
                            PAF is ready ?? with what F/22's ??
                            A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Diving Falcon
                              Meaning, the IAF's plans are getting delayed, if it's Pakistan's luck or good fortune, by the time IAF completes it's plan (2020), the PAF will be ready, that is something must be realized.
                              What do you think, we are flying kites now???
                              Jhingalala-Jhingalala, Hurr-Hurr!!! :eek:

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                              • #30
                                “What do you make of the LCA project, do you will be induced in large numbers?”

                                Very good chance as the plane does offer a good performance, it should be up to the task of fighting the PAF’s current/planned tactical fighters and of course they will build them in India giving it a strong lobby.

                                I would say the LCA even if it enters squadron service in 2010 would still be of much use. The FC-1 will enter squadron service buy 2007 or so but by then the InAF would have more then 50 Su-30K/MK-/1MKIs so they would not be at a disadvantage even though the MiG-21s will not be getting any younger. The LCA and the FC-1 are very close in performance and weapons loads just like the old Hunter FGAs and F-86E/Fs of the past wars (1965/71). I don’t want to get into the discussion of which one is more modern/capable as no one here will know until they fight and even then it is likely that they would not meet while they are both operating as fighters. That means that one would be likely on a ground attack mission and run into the other.

                                The LCA will be fighting along side the Su-30MKI (no doubt the best operational fighter in South Asia), Mirage 2000E/Ds (possibly M2K5s as well), the Phalcon AWACS, Il-78s and of course older MiG-29SEs (R-77E capable) and what ever else remains in service. The plane should be capable of using the current weapons in service such as the R-77E (AA-12), R-73E (AA-11), LITENING II LDP, LGBs, AS-30Ls and Kh-family guided missiles. So it would have a pretty good offensive punch for being a light tactical fighter.

                                The Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 purchase could turn out to be India hedging their bets like the Su-7/Marut purchases in the late 1960s and the ROCAF getting 3 light weight tactical fighters in the same period. Also the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 is a better longer ranged striker then the LCA and would be able to replace the MiG-23BNs, older MiG-21FL/MFs and the Jaguars much sooner then the LCA. That basically leaves the LCA to phase out the MiG-27MLs and MiG-21UPGs.
                                To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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