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  • #46
    I think what everyone here is probably talking about is the ASF-14 Superdooper Tomcat, not the ST-21 (which was actually just a modification of the original Tomcat and not a brand new radical version). It was a whole new thing while the ST-21 was just a modified version.

    Link: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0132.shtml

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    • #47
      Hi guys im new to this forum(which i think is really cool) and this is my first post.
      Back in the '70's and '80's when Tomcats were still in production, and spare parts were readily avalaible, were they as maintenance intensive as they are today? Typically it takes 50-60hrs of maintenance, per flight hour at the present(correct me if i'm wrong). So back in the glory days how many man hours would it have taken to do a service on an F14 to get them combat ready?

      Cheers

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Zaphael
        Useful if the fight stays constantly in the vertical axis.

        Have u seen the cobra being done with its wingtips facing the ground? ie. 90 degree bank? Or even 45 degree bank?

        The cobra is a delicate manuever, which requires a good degree of smart piloting. The crucial point comes when the nose pitches up in excess of 90 degrees. The cobra has to be held as straight as possible in order for a smart recovery. Otherwise, a slight yaw will result in loss of controlled flight for a moment.

        In fact, looking at all the so called "super-manueverability" airshow manuevers, there are moments where precise pilot input is required to prevent the aircraft from departing controlled flight, or unexpected flight path. Re-evaluate how useful such delicate manuevers are in a close range knife fight.
        The cobra is vertical, yes - however it is an indication that yes, the SU27/Mig29 will be able to pull very good angles of attack in a bank as well.

        No you won't likely be flying 90 degrees AOA banked turns, but even if it's cable of 2/3 that in a bank, its very impressive, and better than most other aircraft out there. The F16 can pull what... 25-30 degrees AOA?

        AOA in a knife fight is supremly useful for weapons pointing...
        Last edited by nutter; 10 Jun 06,, 00:53.

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        • #49
          What a rush! I REALLY liked that run over the beach. That, and the Tomcat & the Phantom side-by-side @ 5:03

          I wonder if they'd let the ND ANG use 'em?
          sigpicUSS North Dakota

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          • #50
            Originally posted by nutter
            The cobra is vertical, yes - however it is an indication that yes, the SU27/Mig29 will be able to pull very good angles of attack in a bank as well.

            No you won't likely be flying 90 degrees AOA banked turns, but even if it's cable of 2/3 that in a bank, its very impressive, and better than most other aircraft out there. The F16 can pull what... 25-30 degrees AOA?

            AOA in a knife fight is supremly useful for weapons pointing...

            Hmmm i can see ur point.

            Well, in a way, that high aoa would also be a disadvantage. Since the flightpath is now more or less, more predictable for an enemy to track and gun down. I guess its very offensive to use the high aoa manuevers, while at the same times, its leaving the aircraft slow, and defenseless.

            Timing and precision of execution would determine who ejects i guess.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
              I think what everyone here is probably talking about is the ASF-14 Superdooper Tomcat, not the ST-21 (which was actually just a modification of the original Tomcat and not a brand new radical version). It was a whole new thing while the ST-21 was just a modified version.

              Link: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0132.shtml
              ST-21 had APG-77 radar and PW F-119 supercruise engines with a bunch of internal changes and a bigger wing glove.

              I would call that a super-dooper tomcat in it's own right.

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              • #52
                True. But I think the ASF-14 would have been even sexier. Imagine what that could do...

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Zaphael
                  Hmmm i can see ur point.

                  Well, in a way, that high aoa would also be a disadvantage. Since the flightpath is now more or less, more predictable for an enemy to track and gun down. I guess its very offensive to use the high aoa manuevers, while at the same times, its leaving the aircraft slow, and defenseless.

                  Timing and precision of execution would determine who ejects i guess.
                  High AOA is useful for when the fight gets slow.... this is where the F/A-18 excels, and also the mig 29, because they can pull high angles of attack. Scissors is one situation where i can see it being useful. Also getting the nose back to point weapons around after the merge...

                  Being *able* to pull high AOA does not necessarily mean that the aircraft is limited to high AOA flying in a straight line :D It just means that (particularly at low speeds) it's able to rate it's nose exceptionally well without a departure...

                  I hear rumors (well, some specs I've seen in various places, nothing official) that the F22 can fly at 60+ degrees AOA, so it should be good in a knife-fight as well (my guess anyway).

                  Might not seem much compared to the cobra, but the cobra isn't sustained angle of attack (it just pulls the 90 degrees, and stops dead in the air more or less - i think the spec on max AOA for a sustained turn in the Mig29/Su27 is more like 40-45degrees?) - my bet is that the F22's 60 (plus?) degrees can be sustained....

                  If all goes to plan though, the enemy will be dead before it needs to use it.... and even if the F-22 gets into a dogfight, my gut feeling is that it would make a better energy fighter, simply due to it's massive thrust/weight, supercruise ability and stealth. If it can only be picked up on radar for a few nm by most enemies (as seems to be the case) then supercruise in/out of that range would be quite useful :D



                  ps. I'm no real life fighter pilot. I am however a hardcore sim junkie of some 15 years, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Any real pilots, feel free to cut me down to size :D
                  Last edited by nutter; 11 Jun 06,, 02:33.

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