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Eurofighter vs Su-30MKI

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  • Agreed, though the F-15K is a tad better in all regards, especially WRT A2A combat.

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    • SU-30MKI would dominate. It is presently in a class by itself.

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      • Depends on the pilots and support assets.

        Once AIM-9X is in widespread service, SU-30MkI will be just as much a sitting duck as any other fighter. It's not out turning a 90G Mach 3 Sidewinder.

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        • Originally posted by M21Sniper
          Depends on the pilots and support assets.

          Once AIM-9X is in widespread service, SU-30MkI will be just as much a sitting duck as any other fighter. It's not out turning a 90G Mach 3 Sidewinder.
          1. This is in case the fighter firing aim9x sidewinder is able to fire before getting a R77 on its ass . Well isnt aim9x a short range missile

          2. About evading a highly mobile missile. Where is it written that a more mobile and faster missile cannot be evaded. For we all know that even R27 R77 R73 amraam etc etc all are much more agile and even faster than fighters but they still donot have 100 % hit rate.
          Last edited by ajaybhutani; 05 Jan 05,, 20:17.

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          • Originally posted by ajaybhutani
            1. This is in case the fighter firing aim9x sidewinder is able to fire before getting a R77 on its ass . Well isnt aim9x a short range missile

            2. About evading a highly mobile missile. Where is it written that a more mobile and faster missile cannot be evaded. For we all know that even R27 R77 R73 amraam etc etc all are much more agile and even faster than fighters but they still donot have 100 % hit rate.

            F-15's that went up against the MK's did not have the APG-63V2 AESA radar. If they had, the F-15's would have had first look advantage. This is also one of the less powerful versions of AESA. The APG-77 and APG-79 are much more powerful than the APG-63, so it will take a very powerful radar (more powerful than present) in the MK or MKI or a very large RCS on the aggressor for the MK or MKI to get first look against any aircraft with one of these radars or one of similar capability.

            The AIM-9x is a short range missile, but you must remember AMRAAM. As far as I know, any jet that can carry one can carry the other. Regardless of whether or not the AMRAAM or R-77 is better, if either aircraft gets first look, they have a much larger chance of getting first shot. If they get first shot, I wouldn't want to attempt to evade it no matter how maneuverable my jet was or what the error was on the missile. Those are odds I certainly wouldn't want to take.

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            • SU-30MKI is superior. its radar is practically a radar by itself, its longer range missiles will allow engagement at greater range,

              AIM9X looks pretty wicked.

              ;however, most engagements won't be inside 15km area.

              P.S. does Taiwan have armed AMRAAM's? I don't think so.

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              • "1. This is in case the fighter firing aim9x sidewinder is able to fire before getting a R77 on its ass . Well isnt aim9x a short range missile"

                AIM-9X has a nearly 20 nautical mile range, and about 20% longer from the F-22...

                "2. About evading a highly mobile missile. Where is it written that a more mobile and faster missile cannot be evaded. For we all know that even R27 R77 R73 amraam etc etc all are much more agile and even faster than fighters but they still donot have 100 % hit rate."

                The next generation IIR seeker on the AIM-9X is far superior to any of the missiles you named, and more agile. It doesn't chase heat, it chases a thermal IMAGE of the targeted aircraft. Flares are therefore quite useless against AIM-9X.

                But no, 100% it will not acheive. Probably more like 90-95%.

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                • "SU-30MKI is superior. its radar is practically a radar by itself, its longer range missiles will allow engagement at greater range,"

                  US fighters have superior ECM, which was not used at Cope India, and the APG-63(V)3 AESA equipped Eagles have a radar just as good as the unit on the Flanker.

                  The F-22's APG-77LPI radar has a range almost 50% farther than both(reportedly), and you don't even know it's looking at you because conventional RWRs won't detect it's emmisions.

                  This(among other reasons you are no doubt ignorant to) is why raptor pilots call ACM vs conventional contemporary fighters "Clubbing baby seals". It's totally unfair.

                  ---------------------------------------

                  "however, most engagements won't be inside 15km area."

                  The range of AIM-9X is approx. 20 nautical miles in a high speed head on closing engagement if the attacker holds an altitude advantadge. It's a tailchase engagement that is about 15km. For a supercruising F-22, the range from all engagement profiles is increased by approx. 20% due to the missiles increased kinematic performance bestowed by the high launch speed.

                  That is also the case for the AMRAAM.

                  "P.S. does Taiwan have armed AMRAAM's? I don't think so."

                  Taiwan has an AMRAAM inspired BVR active homing missile, which Raytheon helped them to develop.(Rayhteon is the maker of the AIM-120 and the AIM-9X.

                  It amazes me how someone that knows so little makes such iron clad judgements.
                  Last edited by Bill; 06 Jan 05,, 01:56.

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                  • None of you guys have real lifes huh? Well neither do I so can u guys tell me some stuff on the PAK-FA plz and how it will compare to the F-22 raptor and the Euro-fighter? Oh yeah is India and France going to join in on it?

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                    • "It amazes me how someone that knows so little makes such iron clad judgements."

                      Right of Reply: I do not "make iron clad judgements". I state facts and opinions in an assertive manner, and I am happy to be proven incorrect and learn in a dialectical manner, even though it can be embarassing at times. I gladly admit I "know very little"; however, none of your statements refute my observations.

                      "The F-22's APG-77LPI radar" Are we not speaking on the F-15, Eurofighter, and Su-30MKI? (even though I do hope the will APG-77 dominate)

                      "US fighters have superior ECM, which was not used at Cope India, and the APG-63(V)3 AESA equipped Eagles have a radar just as good as the unit on the Flanker."
                      That brings hope, but the fact that they have superior radar and ECM, if they do, is negated many times by the fact that even if F-15 can identify threat, it cannot engage it with AMRAAMs at a long range. Then, the Su-30MKI's, with supposedly weaker radar, will identify F-15's and engage them with R-77's at a range 50 km greater than the range AIM-120C's can fire. (fas.org)

                      The AIM-9X is incredible, but even if it has a range of 20 km on F-15 that will not stop R-77's from firing first.

                      In regards to Taiwanese AIM-120C's I found out they have purchased them, but they are being held at a USAF base unless a conflict occurs in Strait.
                      Were you referring to Tien Chien -II? (its multi target engagement capability is impressive, but I know no engagement characteristics of it)
                      Last edited by Franco Lolan; 07 Jan 05,, 02:34.

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                      • Originally posted by Franco Lolan
                        "It amazes me how someone that knows so little makes such iron clad judgements."

                        Right of Reply: I do not "make iron clad judgements". I state facts and opinions in an assertive manner, and I am happy to be proven incorrect and learn in a dialectical manner, even though it can be embarassing at times. I gladly admit I "know very little"; however, none of your statements refute my observations.

                        "The F-22's APG-77LPI radar" Are we not speaking on the F-15, Eurofighter, and Su-30MKI? (even though I do hope the will APG-77 dominate)

                        "US fighters have superior ECM, which was not used at Cope India, and the APG-63(V)3 AESA equipped Eagles have a radar just as good as the unit on the Flanker."
                        That brings hope, but the fact that they have superior radar and ECM, if they do, is negated many times by the fact that even if F-15 can identify threat, it cannot engage it with AMRAAMs at a long range. Then, the Su-30MKI's, with supposedly weaker radar, will identify F-15's and engage them with R-77's at a range 50 km greater than the range AIM-120C's can fire. (fas.org)

                        The AIM-9X is incredible, but even if it has a range of 20 km on F-15 that will not stop R-77's from firing first.

                        In regards to Taiwanese AIM-120C's I found out they have purchased them, but they are being held at a USAF base unless a conflict occurs in Strait.
                        Were you referring to Tien Chien -II? (its multi target engagement capability is impressive, but I know no engagement characteristics of it)
                        Why do you think it couldn't engage with AMRAAM's at long range? It is my understanding that the AIM-120 has similar range capabilities as that of the R-77.

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                        • The R-77 has a range 50km greater than the AIM-120C.

                          It is possible the AIM-120D will have greater range, but, at the present moment, the AIM-120C, the longer range missile used by F-15's, has a range that is significantly inferior to the R-77.

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                          • "(fas.org)"

                            That's your biggest mistake.

                            Don't believe ANYTHING you read on FAS unless you triple cross reference it. Not only is the data at FAS hopelessly outdated, but it's wildly innacurate as well.

                            BTW, just for shiit and giggles i looked on FAS. They list the range of the AA-12/R-77 at 50km. That's actually a LOT less than AIM-120C-7 P3I AMRAAM(the current production model) is usally listed at.

                            http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-120.html

                            This site lists the A/B AMRAAMs at 50-75km(depending on engagement profile). The C-7 has a new longer high impulse rocket motor that increases range and kinematic end game performance considerably.

                            Of course, none of the ranges listed on the net are accurate.

                            "The AIM-9X is incredible, but even if it has a range of 20 km on F-15 that will not stop R-77's from firing first."

                            I said approx 20 nautical MILES(in some profiles), not Km.

                            "Were you referring to Tien Chien -II?"

                            Yep.
                            Last edited by Bill; 07 Jan 05,, 06:21.

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                            • FYI the AIM-120C-5s are in Taiwan....
                              Attached Files
                              To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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                              • "BTW, just for shiit and giggles i looked on FAS. They list the range of the AA-12/R-77 at 50km. That's actually a LOT less than AIM-120C-7 P3I AMRAAM(the current production model) is usally listed at."

                                I think that was a typo. Look earlier in the article. It states 90-100km.

                                http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/m.../row/aa-12.htm



                                troung, I see your pic. Do those have warheads? I read an article in which Cheng said they only had non war head versions but said that they are still expensive.

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