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  • Originally posted by TopHatter
    All depends on what the opponent is flying and how well he flys it.

    Not every country is equipped with 5th gen fighters flown by painstakingly trained pilots that attend Red Flag every year.
    I'd take the F-16 over the Mig-29 anyday, even if the price difference meant getting only half as many airframes.

    The F-16 is undefeated in aerial combat, with a 79:0 kill ratio to date, and is also a good little multirole battlefiend interdiction/strike/CAS/F-FAC plane too.

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    • Originally posted by TopHatter
      Oh I wouldn't go that far.
      Especially if you don't happen to have a couple hundred million bucks sitting around to purchase the latest ridiculously expensive American fighter.
      Russian hardware may not be the prettiest high-speed low-drag gear on the market, but it does it's job pretty good.

      On the other hand, when dealing with Russian arms companies, keep one hand on your wallet and the other covering your eyes: So they don't rob (or cheat) you blind. ;)
      Compared to US hardware, that is.

      And yes, corruption is always a thing Russians have been good at. ;)
      "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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      • Originally posted by M21Sniper
        The AS-6 Kingfish has a range of 300 miles doesn't it?

        I gotta be honest, i do not see F-18E/Fs stopping a multi-axis, multi-regiment Backfire/AS-6 attack, nor even coming close.

        All i can say is, if that happens, Aegis had better work as advertised or we're in deep shiit.
        Hence why the Tomcat/Phoenix combination is still very worthy. But I guess we'll have to see what happens without it.
        "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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        • Hopefully nothing happens and we never find out at all.

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          • Originally posted by M21Sniper
            The AS-6 Kingfish has a range of 300 miles doesn't it?
            Remember our experiences with the KH-31? Actual range turned out to be about 1/4 to 1/2 of the advertised range.

            The AS-6 is an antique.

            A CSF on a wartime footing has a defensive screen extending out to 800 km. More if 2 CSF's (or more) are NetForce'd.
            Originally posted by M21Sniper
            I gotta be honest, i do not see F-18E/Fs stopping a multi-axis, multi-regiment Backfire/AS-6 attack, nor even coming close.
            Do you really think there is anyone capable of carrying out that attack?
            "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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            • I didnt think 19 Terrorists coulda pulled of 9-11 if you'd have asked me on 9-10.

              Never underestimate the enemy.

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              • Originally posted by M21Sniper
                I didnt think 19 Terrorists coulda pulled of 9-11 if you'd have asked me on 9-10.
                True, but the WTC is not a CSF. Any chickensh*t can hijack a civil airplane.
                "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                • Originally posted by highsea
                  True, but the WTC is not a CSF. Any chickensh*t can hijack a civil airplane.
                  I'm sure you'll agree any chickensh*t could not have planned, coordinated, then exectuted the 9-11 attacks.

                  They were mass murdering sonzabiitches, yeah...but they were not stupid, and they were anything but cowards. 9-11 was one of the most brilliantly concieved and executed guerilla attacks in the history of warfare, and is sufficient just cause to demonstrate that we should never under estimate this or any foes ability to do the totally unexpected.

                  Pearl Harbor also proved that conclusively. And our victory at midway proved the same lesson to the Japanese, in reverse.

                  Russia still troubles me. With every passing day they slip closer to totalitarianism, and as Rick likes to point out, it's the US that's literally footing the bill for their clean up from the last arms race.
                  They still have a couple hundred TU-22Ms. They're all salvageable if not operational. If they implement state control again and balloon their Military budget as in the past within 2-3 years those old backfires could be a fully refurbished threat packing moderninzed AS-6 based AShMs.

                  If history has proven ANYTHING, it is that you should never underestimate the Russians ability to screw up the grand designs and plans of countless Empires throughout history, lolololol.
                  Last edited by Bill; 24 May 06,, 00:54.

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                  • Originally posted by M21Sniper
                    I'm sure you'll agree any chickensh*t could not have planned coordinated, then exectuted the 9-11 attacks.
                    I agree, OBL is not just any chickensh*t, but an exceptional one.

                    But it was a cowardly act. As all terrorist acts are, imo because it targeted civilians rather than someone equipped to defend themselves. And the planners were hiding half the world away when it was carried out by a crew of brainwashed donkeys.

                    And the US was way complacent to the threat by 8 years of appeasement and infighting, the USN is not a civilian target, and is definitely not complacent today.

                    The fact that no one has carried out a successful attack against a US carrier in 50 years shows that it's not something that will be that easy to get away with, or someone would have tried. It's about as juicy a target as exists anywhere, if you're ballsy or stupid enough to try.
                    Originally posted by M21Sniper
                    Russia still troubles me. With every passing day they slip closer to totalitarianism, and as Rick likes to point out, it's the US that's literally footing the bill for their clean up from the last arms race.
                    They still have a couple hundred TU-22Ms. They're all salvageable if not operational. If they implement state control again and ballon their Military budget as in the past within 2-3 years those old backfires could be a fully refurbished threat packing moderninzed AS-6 based AShMs.

                    If history has proven ANYTHING, it is that you should never underestimate the Russians ability to screw up the grand designs and plans of countless Empires throughout history, lolololol.
                    Lol, even so, I think the more serious threat comes from below the waves, not above. Even the Soviets realized that they couldn't realistically target a CVBG from the air with any reasonable expectation of success.

                    The state Russian aerospace is in, it will take a lot longer than a couple years to resurrect. Hell, they've lost an entire generation of engi-nerds. Those AS-6's are probably rusted out inert hulls, and the backfires are not likely much better.

                    And even if they aren't, that 300 mile range is a crock of sh*t. And even if it isn't, that backfire still has to get within launch range. And even if it does that, that AS-6 has to get past a barrage of RAM, ESSM, SM2, ECM, CIWS, and whatnot, find a target that's maneuvering at 40 kts, lock onto said target (amid the most electronically polluted atmosphere in the world) and not a mule, successfully hit the target, function as it's supposed to, and do how much damage?

                    Lol. I couldn't even get an accurate radar bearing on a CVN from a mile away with a brand new Furuno a couple years ago. And the damn thing was steaming right along side me. I could've almost hit it with a slingshot, but had I steered a radar heading to it, my next stop would have been Japan.
                    Last edited by highsea; 24 May 06,, 00:33.
                    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                    • Originally posted by TopHatter
                      Because as it's been already pointed out, a prototype is not a production aircraft.
                      X-35 is like the YF-22, it' a prototype. We'll only know how the JSF performs after September when the first LRIP real F-35A flys.

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                      • Originally posted by hello
                        X-35 is like the YF-22, it' a prototype. We'll only know how the JSF performs after September when the first LRIP real F-35A flys.
                        Yep, I know that ;)
                        I don't think that urmomma knows though
                        Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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                        • The F-35A flying in september is not representative of what a production model jet will be. The potential for much chaos in the A program still abounds, lol.

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