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F-14D vs F-35C

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  • #46
    Originally posted by M21Sniper
    The F-14D is AMRAAM capable from a hardware perspective. The software was just never fully installed.
    That could be very easily fixed. But alas, it seems that the Tomcats will have to make do with the Sparrows and Sidewinders until their retirement later this year.
    "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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    • #47
      Originally posted by leibstandarte10
      Is he defending his Russian crap again?
      Yep.... this place never changes. ;)

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      • #48
        Originally posted by M21Sniper
        The case hardened high-velocity 250lb SDB supposedly comes very close to the penetrating power of the F117s GBU-28 2700lb penetrator and reportedly has an all new explosive filler 5x more powerful than Tritonal high explosive.

        The F-22 is really a better JDAM type strike platform than the F-117 in all respects except for the limited internal bay size.
        Yeah, I think it's the new AFX-757 used on the JASSM. Still, the F-35 is more apt to carry SDBs and replace the F-117. The F-22 carries 6 SDBs and 2 Sidewinders or just 8 SDBs while JSF carries 8 SDBs and 2 AMRAAMs as well. With JDAMs the F-22 carries 2 JDAM-1000s, 2 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders while JSF A/C versions carry 2 JDAM-2000s and 2 AMRAAMs or even 2 JSOWs and 2 AMRAAMs, making it better for stealth air strike than F-22 and F-117.

        BTW, all stealth planes but B-2 have a pretty limited internal bay size.

        Originally posted by leibstandarte10
        That could be very easily fixed. But alas, it seems that the Tomcats will have to make do with the Sparrows and Sidewinders until their retirement later this year.
        Sparrows!? Those things are still in service while the Phoenix got retired 2 years ago? It doesn't make any sense.

        Originally posted by urmomma158
        I know right, if this was 1 on1 the F14 would die end of story.
        Even if it was 1 on 2 or 2 on 2 or 2 on 3 or 3 on 3.

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        • #49
          It doesn't make sense that they're retiring the F-14 without a suitable replacement, but the all-knowing bean counters in Washington have made their choice.
          "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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          • #50
            Originally posted by hello
            Still, the F-35 is more apt to carry SDBs and replace the F-117. The F-22 carries 6 SDBs and 2 Sidewinders or just 8 SDBs while JSF carries 8 SDBs and 2 AMRAAMs as well. With JDAMs the F-22 carries 2 JDAM-1000s, 2 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders while JSF A/C versions carry 2 JDAM-2000s and 2 AMRAAMs or even 2 JSOWs and 2 AMRAAMs, making it better for stealth air strike than F-22 and F-117.
            The F-22 is more stealthy, can fly MUUUUUUUUUUCH higher above the enemy defenses, has significantly more powerful radar, is more agile, supercruises in the mach 1.5+ region, and has longer range. It also has twin engine survivability.

            The F-35A/C have a slightly larger internal stores capacity, but that's about it.

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            • #51
              The F-16, F/A-18, and F-117 have all executed air strike succesfully for 30 years, and none of them had those things. The F-35 has far more range, agility, better radar and targetting systems like EOTS along with stealth capability and carrier ops(combining F-16 & F/A-18) than them, though not as much as the Raptor. You don't need tremendously high altitude for ground strike, and none of these jets had it. Also, the F-117, which was less than half as stealthy as the F-35 carried out the mission successfully, so it's stealthy enough to do this mission. The F-22 has a more powerful radar but the F-35s AN/APG-81 AESA combined with it's EOTS combination of EO, IR and laser, however make a more versatile AG targetting system. The F-35 is better for first-day-of-war air strike, SEAD/DEAD, normal air strikes, standoff air support and interdiction better than the F-22 and these are missions which B-2s normally don't do. You won't find B-2s slinging JSOWs on tanks, bombing SAM sites or destroying surface-to-surface long range missile launchers like scuds or silkworms.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by hello
                You don't need tremendously high altitude for ground strike, and none of these jets had it.
                Well, lets look at the reason for the higher altitudes:

                Increasing altitude and(or) launch speed = enhanced range and penetration power for an aircraft's weapons systems.

                There's a reason the F-22 has approx. 20% greater range with any given weapon vs any of the competition.

                Release an AMRAAM or AIM-9X at 65k feet and Mach 1.8, guess what, instead of wasting all it's fuel accelerating and climbing it will now burn at max cruise speed for a few seconds longer than if fired at 30k feet and Mach 0.95 as a typical legacy platform would.

                The same is also true for JDAM and SDB type weapons as well.

                With the F-22, it's more than just the planes performance......it's the performance of the weapons themselves that's massively increased too.

                PS........at 65k feet(that's 12.3 miles UP!) there are almost certainly ZERO SAM systems in existance that can intercept a beaming F-22 from a kinematic standpoint.

                Not patriot, not S400, None, nada, zilch.

                There have been planes that have flown that high, and planes that have flown that fast that high, but there's never been a plane that flies that fast and high that is anywhere near as agile as the F-22......and certainly not one with the ECM capability and low RCS of the F-22.

                IMO, at 65k feet, the F-22 will operate with impunity against all current and projected SAM systems. We should make no mistake, the F-22 is in a class of survivability that the JSF will not begin to touch.
                Last edited by Bill; 10 May 06,, 16:08.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by hello
                  The F-16, F/A-18, and F-117 have all executed air strike succesfully for 30 years, and none of them had those things. The F-35 has far more range, agility, better radar and targetting systems like EOTS along with stealth capability and carrier ops(combining F-16 & F/A-18) than them, though not as much as the Raptor. You don't need tremendously high altitude for ground strike, and none of these jets had it. Also, the F-117, which was less than half as stealthy as the F-35 carried out the mission successfully, so it's stealthy enough to do this mission. The F-22 has a more powerful radar but the F-35s AN/APG-81 AESA combined with it's EOTS combination of EO, IR and laser, however make a more versatile AG targetting system. The F-35 is better for first-day-of-war air strike, SEAD/DEAD, normal air strikes, standoff air support and interdiction better than the F-22 and these are missions which B-2s normally don't do. You won't find B-2s slinging JSOWs on tanks, bombing SAM sites or destroying surface-to-surface long range missile launchers like scuds or silkworms.
                  M21 Sniper is right. The F 35 is considered a modetate stealth fighter and is less stealthy than the Raptor. The Raptor can cruise at Mach 1.7 which maximizes the range and deadliness of all weapons and slips out of engagement zones quite fast. It has an all aspect, wide band VLO stealth design better than the JSF. Flies at altitudes between 40,000-65,000 feet. It can kinectimaticclay defeat any sam threat with just spped and altitude alone except maybe the long range one's. The AN/APG-77 is better than the AN/APG-81 in range power etc, the APG-81 is just better for ground threats.
                  The F/A 22 carries more AMRAAMS and can actually carry the sidewinder. Not to mention it's a helluva lot more maeuverable thanks to it's design,thrust to weight ratio, and thrust vectoring.B-2's and F22's are the air forces first day first strike aircraft. They have the stealth and the firepower to get wipe out the enemy.

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                  • #54
                    Even if it was 1 on 2 or 2 on 2 or 2 on 3 or 3 on 3.
                    As long as the JSF has AMRAAMS. But even then it's got the maneuverability of the F 16 so I'm not worried. It's a much harder target to hit period. I don't get it first you act like the JSF is the best USAF plane and then you're saying it can't even take on 2 Tomcats?!?!??

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                    • #55
                      Whoa, I guess we also consider the B-2 must also be moderate stealthy considering the F-35 has a RCS a little bigger than the B-2.

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                      • #56
                        Yea but only in comparison to the Raptor.

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                        • #57
                          Has the JSF even flown yet? I guess all comparo's are out.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by urmomma158
                            As long as the JSF has AMRAAMS. But even then it's got the maneuverability of the F 16 so I'm not worried. It's a much harder target to hit period. I don't get it first you act like the JSF is the best USAF plane and then you're saying it can't even take on 2 Tomcats?!?!??
                            F-35 isn't the USAFs best plane. In A2A, Raptor is, no doubt, and in A2G, the B-2 is. I'm just saying F-35 is a better all-round versatile all-round platform than all its replacing and it would be a better choice to carry out the brunt of ground attack work(except for CAS, which A-10 does) than F-22, which is primarily an Air Dominance fighter, in a similar way to how F-15s performed A2A while F-16s did the majority of A2G although F-15 was better at A2G.

                            That aside, you said if 1 JSF took on 1 Tomcat, the Tomcat would lose.
                            I said that if 1 JSF took on 2 Tomcats, the Tomcats would lose also or
                            if 2 JSFs took on to or 3 Tomcats, the Tomcats would again lose and if
                            3 JSFs take on 3 Tomcats, again, the Tomcats would lose.

                            However, if 1 JSF took on 3 Tomcats, the JSF would lose.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by hello
                              F-22As are replacing F-117s? Why would they replace regional bombers with air superiority fighters? The F-22 can't carry 2000lb bombs inside as far I know. It would be more correct if they kept the Nighthawks until 2011 until they get replaced by F-35As.
                              Because the F-117 cant carry a whole lot either. An F-15 can carry a lot more, and for targets that require multiple hits in an area too well defended for a conventional aircraft we use the B-2. The Nighthawk isnt a very good aircraft nowadays. They're being replaced by a combination of several planes.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                                Whoa, I guess we also consider the B-2 must also be moderate stealthy considering the F-35 has a RCS a little bigger than the B-2.
                                The B-2 is an older design....so i'd certainly hope the F-35 is improved in that respect.

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