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  • Flankers

    Flanker

    The PFI (‘Perspektivnyi Frontovoi Istrebeitel’ or Prospective Frontal Fighter) program started in 1969 as a counter to all foreign fighters (including the US F-X, which lead to the F-15 Eagle). A thrust/weight ratio of 1.2:1, high agility and a range of 2160 nm was amongst the requirements. The Soviet Air Forces did not have tactical air to air refuelling until the 1980s with Su-24M Fencer D, a long range would require large amounts of internal fuel (avoiding high drag external fuel tanks) and lead to a large aircraft. The USAF decided at this time to go with a ‘high-low’ (Capability) mix of the F-15 and light weight fighter (this resulted in the F-16). The Soviet decision was to split the PFI into the agile LPFI (‘Logiky’ or light-weight PFI) to replace MiG-21 Fishbed and MiG-23 Flogger and long range TPFI (‘Tyazholyi’ or heavy PFI) to replace Su-15 Flagon, Tu-128 Fiddler and Yak-28P Firebar. The LPFI would operate above friendly positions and up to 55 nm behind the frontlines. This lead to the MiG-29 Fulcrum. The TPFI would be required to operate up to 220 nm behind enemy lines. This resulted in the Su-27 Flanker. The planned mix was 70% MiG-29 and 30% Su-27.
    Radars Large Medium Small Vsmall Stealthy Remarks
    N-001 Mech 130 81 52 23.4 13 LD/SD, ‘Sword’
    N-001M 130 81 52 23.4 13 LD/SD, engages 2 with R-77
    N-011 137 85 54.8 24.7 13.7 LD/SD, engages 6
    N-011M Bars 180 111.6 72 32.4 18 LD/SD, ‘Leopard’, Phased array, engages 4, Target ID
    Imp N-011M 216 134 86.4 39 21.6 LD/SD, Phased array, engages 8, Target ID
    N-012 27 16.7 10.8 4.9 2.7 AI, rear facing
    Kopyo-F ? AI, Phased array, rear facing
    Zhuk (Bettle) 162 100.4 64.8 29.2 16.2 LD/SD
    Zhuk-MS 137 85 54.8 24.7 13.7 LD/SD
    Zhuk-MF 137 85 54.8 24.7 13.7 LD/SD, Phased array, engages 4
    Zhuk PH 190 117.8 76 34.2 19 LD/SD, Phased array
    Zhuk 27 162 100.4 64.8 29.2 16.2 LD/SD, Track 20, engage 4
    Pero (Pen) 190 117.8 76 34.2 19 LD/SD, Phased array, Tracks 8-12, engages 4, 20 metre resolution
    Osa 74 46 29.6 13.3 7.4 LD/SD, Phased array
    54.7 35 21.8 9.9 5.5 SS
    The N-001 is the standard Flanker radar. Later software upgrades will increase the N-011M multi-target ability to 8 targets (see Improved N-011M entrey above). The Zhuk was a contender for the Su-27M, also cancelled, probably also the fate of the Zhuk 27, likewise the Zhuk PH. The N-012 was the initial rearwards facing radar on the Su-27M, the Kopyo-F said to be the type to be used on the Su-27IB family. The Zhuk-MS seems to be entering service on upgraded naval Su-33, SAR resolution of 3-6 m resolution, with an active phased array radar planned. The proposed Zhuk-MF would add a phased array radar. Pero is a recently announced upgrade of existing N-010 radars. Sokal types and N001VE for the Su-30MK has also been reported.
    R-27EM Improved R-27ER SARH type with range increased to 62 nm. Might be in service on Su-33.
    R-27EA Proposed TARH version R-27ER, same range.
    AAM-L/KS-172. Weight: 600 kg or 750 kg with booster. Range: 162 nm, 216 nm for boosted version. 50 kg warhead
    Different engines:
    AL-31F 12500 kg Standard engine
    Al-31FP 12500 kg Used on early TVC test aircraft
    AL-31FM 12800 kg Su-27M/Su-35, Su-27IB
    AL-31FU 12800 kg Su-37 thrust vectoring
    Single seat versions
    Internal fuel is 9400 kg. 3400 kg of this is ‘internal auxiliary tankage’ and the aircraft is G limited carrying this. In H4 terms a Su-27 attempting to dogfight with more than 5000 kg internal fuel uses the fully loaded Man Rating.
    ‘Su-27 Flanker A’: The T10 (10th ‘Treugoiny’ triangle or delta wing design by the Sukhoi OKB) first flew in May 1977. A poorly designed airframe (not agile) and high fuel consumption engines (failed to meet range requirement) and information on the F-15 lead to a redesign. The T10S (‘Series’ or production) was the true Su-27S Flanker B prototype.
    Su-27P Flanker B: Has the option of either an internal fuel load of 9400 kg (Cruise range 2008 nm) and weapons of 2520 kg or internal fuel of 6000 kg (Cruise range 1266 nm) and weapons of 5220 kg. Upon service entry, in late 1986, no air to ground modes were operational and ECM might have been 2nd Gen D (no internal jammer fitted) with 24 decoys. Takes off and lands within 700 metres. Used by IA PVO (‘Istrebitel’naya aviahtsiya protivovozdooshnoy oborony’ or Air Defence Force fighter).
    28300-16380 kg = 11920 kg internal fuel/external weapons
    Su-27S Flanker B : (‘sereeynyy’ or production) Increased MTOW (Maximum Take Off Weight) to 33000 kg (the options are 9400 kg of fuel and 5200 kg of weapons or 6000 kg of fuel and 10000 kg weapons), option of TIP mounted L-005 Sorebtsiya ECM pods added. Internal Pallard 2nd Gen Jammer only covers rear 180 degrees, L-005 Sorebtsiya increases this to full 360 degree coverage, decoys increased to 96. Used by Tactical Aviation.
    33000-16380 kg = 16620 kg internal fuel/external weapons
    Su-27SK Flanker B (‘Kommercial’ or Commercial) Export late series Su-27S with ground attack weapons (unguided only), no internal jammer (ECM: 2nd Gen D), no L-005 ECM pods. Payload 6200 kg. Cruise range 1985 nm.
    Su-27SM: Proposed mid-life update of Su-27S with R-77 [AA-12 Adder], further expanded weapons and possibly new radar and engines. Extra fuel in wings, total 9965 kg (cruise range: 2104 nm)
    Su-27SMK-I: Export Su-27SK update proposal with addition of UW1 pylon, inflight refuelling probe, and 2000 litre fuel tanks. Payload 8000 kg.
    Su-27SMK-II: Second stage of Su-27SMK update with addition of AA-12, Kh-29 and Kh-31 missiles and KAB-500 LGB.
    Su-27P: Proposed long range interceptor version with inflight refuelling probe added. As the Su-27P had up to 10 hour missions planned and had one pilot, the two seat Su-27PU version took over this role.
    Su-27PD: (‘dozaprahvka’ or refuelling). The one Su-27P prototype with inflight refuelling probe> Later had radar and weapons removed and used by the ‘Test Pilot’ aerobatic display team.
    Su-27M: (‘modernizeerovannyy’ or upgraded). Multi-role Su-27, see Su-35 for details.
    Su-27RV: Six replacement ‘Test Pilot’ display aircraft with westernised communications and inflight refuelling probes.
    Su-27BM Russian Update: First stage is new radar with SS mode and AA-12 capability from early 2001 to Su-27S. Second stage will add inflight refuelling probe and possibly Sapson (Peregrine Falcon) laser designator/FLIR targeting pod. Engine thrust is planned to be increased from 2002 to 12500 – 13800 kg and further increased to 14500 –15000 kg from 2004. A conformal pod for carrying AAM and reduced RCS is also planned (Use Vsmall from front with AAM pod). TIP mounted L005S jammer pods (3rd Gen J&D) are also planned, along with eventual towed decoys (4th Gen J&D). 70-80 are to be updated from 2002 (however only 30 were funded, planned for 2002-2003 upgrade).
    Su-27K Flanker D: (‘Korabelny’)Aircraft carrier version with unguided ground attack weapons. Accepted into service in 1994, with first deployment 1995/1996. 6500 kg weapons with 12 pylons. Total Production: 2 prototypes, 7 pre-production, 4+ production. Supposedly 72 are planned in 3 squadrons, each with 24 aircraft. MTOW from carrier is 29940 kg, with 33000 kg from land bases. 1242 knots at altitude, 756 knots at S/L, 17000 m ceiling. IFR probe. CL UPAZ refulling pod.
    Su-27KM: Proposed version Su-27K with thrust-vectoring, FBW controls (+1 to Man Rating), Zhuk radar and precision guided weapons.
    Su-27KPP: (‘Postanovschchik Pemekh’ for EW/command post) proposed version.
    Su-27KRC: proposed recon version.
    Su-27KRT: (‘Razvedchik Tseleukazatel’ or recon/target acquisition), proposed version.
    Su-33: The official name of the Su-27K used from 1998. This name was used earlier for a proposed advanced version of the Su-27K (see Su-27KM above). Supposedly Kh-31 capability has been added to UW pylons.
    Su-33M: Designation for existing Su-33 fitted with Zhuk-MS radar (engages 4), AA-12 AAM, and precision guided weapons.
    Su-30KI: Might have also been Su-27KI. Indonesia ordered this unique one seat version of the two seat multi-role Su-30K with 12 and 8 options. Equipped with inflight refuelling probes, N-001M radar with R-77 capability and 8000 kg weapons. Precision guided weapons would be added later. The order was cancelled before aircraft delivery, and probably fitted as two seaters and delivered to India as Su-30K. At least one aircraft used by Sukhoi for testing from 1998 including AA-12 trials.
    Su-35: The Russian air force has not ordered the Su-27M and it has been renamed Su-35 in 1993 and offered for export Although also said to be Su-27MP. Most countries would probably be more interested in the Su-30MK multi-role aircraft. ECM: 3rd Gen J&D (all internal), internal fuel increased to 10250 kg (extra 720 litres in wings and 360 litres in extended fins), cruise range 2160 nm plus. Inflight refuelling probe, 3rd Gen IRST, TCS and laser designator added. Initial radar was to have been the N-011 (may engage 6 targets), then a phased array N-011 (engages 8). Supposedly the N-011 has suffered development problems and might never enter service. The phased array Zhuk (Beetle) PH (engage 6-8) has also been mentioned. Full fly-by-wire (FBW) flight control (+0.5 Man Rating) and canards (+0.5 Man Rating) a total of +1.0 to Man Rating. 3 or 4 in Russian service, used for development work. Payload 8000 kg. MTOW = 34000 kg, empty weight = 18400 kg, 15600 kg internal fuel and weapons, 1350 knots at altitude, 756 knots at S/L, 17800 m ceiling, 12 hardpoints. The MTOW has been boosted to 38800 kg (same as Su-30MKI & Su-30MKK), with internal fuel 10250 kg and weapons 8500 kg. 12 in service with N-011M Bars radar and weapons from Su-30MKK.
    Su-37: Proposed export Su-35 fitted with thrust vectoring (+0.5 Man Rating), N-011M radar, range is 2155 nm.
    Su-37MR: Proposed reconnaissance version of Su-37.
    Two seat versions
    Su-27 Flanker C: Tandem two seat training version.
    Su-27UB Flanker C early series. (‘oochebno boyevoy’ or combat trainer). Retains full combat capability. Internal range reduces to 1864 nm. 30450 – 17900 kg= 12550 kg internal fuel/external weapons.
    Su-27UBM Flanker C late series. Upgrade with 20 planned to enter service in 2001. This includes a phased array radar with SAR mode, datalink and R-77 {AA-12 Adder], Kh-31A/P, Kh-29T, KAB-500 capability. 33500 – 17900 kg= 15600 kg internal fuel/external weapons.
    Su-27UBK Flanker C. Export SU-27UB.
    Su-30: Tandem PVO interceptor with two pilots and inflight refuelling probe, improved navigation equipment. 9400 kg internal fuel, cruise range 2000 nm. Radar may engage two targets and has basic ground attack modes. Additional equipment fit would have included a rear seat fighter controller and automatic datalink to control up to 4 other fighters. Around 30 produced 1992 to 1997, with 5 in service. Incorrectly designated the ‘Su-27PU’.
    Su-30K: Export Su-30.
    Su-30I: (‘Istrebeitel’ or fighter) Test aircraft with canards added.
    Su-30KM: Single test aircraft adding terrain following modes.
    Su-30KN: Su-30MK used for weapons trials for Su-27UBM upgrade, name later reused for updated Russian Su-27UB and Su-30. Fitted with N-001VE radar with SAR and sea search modes, Kh-31A, KAB-500, Kh-29T and R-77. Stage 1 update (currently being converted) will add the N-001M with R-77 [AA-12 Adder], TIP Sorebtsiya jammers, Kh-29T and KAB-500Kr, the radar has 20-50 metre resolution.
    Stage II adds the ability to engage 2 targets with R-77.
    Stage III would add a phased array antenna (see Pero stats above) with 50% more range (also given as 120-125%), engages 6 targets with R-77, Kh-29L (with added laser designator channel to existing IRST/laser rangefinder) which can only be used when the aircraft is in a dive, 6 Kh-31A/P. A datalink allows the aircraft to provide mid-course guidance for missiles launched form other launching aircraft.
    A proposed further upgrade would replace the radar with the Zhuk 27 with a SAR mode and the Sapson targeting pod (FLIR/TV, laser rangefinder/desiganator) capable of designating for missiles or bombs whilst the aircraft is level flight or in a dive.
    Su-30M Flanker: Multi-role aircraft with precision guided weapons added to current unguided types. 8000 kg payload
    Su-30MK: Export Su-30M. MTOW 38000 kg, 1620 nm range.
    Su-30MKI: Canards and thrust vectoring to India. Radar is phased array N-011M (engages 4) with Advanced bombsight, 3rd Generation J&D, buddy-buddy refuelling equipment. Weapons will include Kh-25MPU ARM and R-77 [AA-12 Adder]. Maximum take off weight increased to 38000 kg with greater landing weight to recover with heavy PGM. The TCS has range increased to 90 km.
    Su-30MKK: (‘Kitaya’ or China) Standard Su-30MK (no thrust vectoring or canards) with N-001M radar (added SS mode). Later deliveries will be R-77 [AA-12 Adder] capable (engages 2 targets). The ‘third batch’ (Series III) will have Zhuk-MS radar. All have an extra 360 litres fuel in fin tip tanks. NTOW is 38000 kg, with 10000 kg being fuel. 12 weapon pylons.
    Su-30MKM: This will be the name if Malaysia buys the SU-30MK.
    Su-35UB: Sukhoi designation of Su-30MKI proposed for China with N-011M.
    Su-30M2: Su-30M testbed with N-011M radar.
    Su-30MK2: Export version of Su-30MK with N-011M radar, avionics from Su-35 and option canards and thrust vectoring.
    Su-27IB: (‘Istrebitel Bombardiroschchik’ for fighter bomber). Side by side two seat strike version to replace early Su-24 Fencer and some Tu-22M2 Backfire B. 6 test aircraft in service by 2000, combat trials over Chechnya in late 1999. Expected in service date 2006.
    1025 knots max, 756 kts sea level, 7G limited, ceiling, -70 kph at low level, -480 kph at altitude, Internal fuel 12100 kg (plus 7200 kg in external tanks, possibly two 2000 litre tanks below and centreline 4000 kg conformal fuel tank, although said to be 3 3000 litre tanks), 2222 nm cruise range. 8000 kg payload with 12 pylons, 19800 m ceiling. The B-004 phased array radar has sea search, terrain following modes, search range for an airborne target is 18.6 nm (with RCS 3 m2), 16.2 nm for surface target such as van, or 72.9 nm for a destroyer sized warship. This radar has hit development problems and the Osa radar has been mentioned. Reduced RCS to Vsmall. 180 rounds 30mm. MTOW 44100 kg, max speed 1025 knots at altitude, 702 at S/L, 14000 metre ceiling, Man Rtg: 3.5, ferry range 2428 nm. Kh-31 on FUS1
    Su-27IBP: Proposed jammer version with TIP L005S jammers (3rd Gen J&D), 2 L175V standoff jammers (1st Gen Offensive Jammers), 2 Kh-31 ARM.
    Su-27KU: Proposed aircraft carrier training version (no folding wings)
    Su-27KUB: Current proposed aircraft carrier training, probably fully carrier capable also known as Su-33UB. An interceptor version and AEW aircraft have also been proposed. Was to have been fitted with N-011M radar, although the Zhuk-MS has also been tested.
    Su-27R: Proposed recon version with Pika SLAR, ESM, ELINT, TV, IR, laser and photo reconnaissance equipment.
    Su-30K2: Similar to Su-27IB with N-011M radar.
    Su-32FN: (‘Fighter Naval’) Proposed naval attack export version, hence the westernised name. ‘Sea Snake’ radar, MAD, FLIR, sonobuoy processor. CL1 mounted sonobuoy pod (72 S/B) or Kh-41 (this missile will probably never enter service). Tandem torpedoes could be carried on FUS1 and depth charges replacing cluster bombs.
    Su-32MF: (‘Multi Function’) Land attack export version.
    Su-34: Sukhoi designation of Su-27IB


    Users
    Angola 8 Su-27 (1999), 7 (2000-2001?), probably ex-Belarus. Belarus 22-23 Su-27 , possibly sold to Angola
    China Su-27SK: 24 (1992), 2 (1993), 18 (1995) with R-27R, R-27T, R-73
    Su-27UBK: 2 (1992), 6 (1995), 20 (8 December 2000. Last deliveries 2003. The next batch will have N001M radar with R-77 capability)
    14 damaged and 3 destroyed by cyclone in April 1997. A further 2 lost in accidents. The original plan was for licence production of up to 180 J-11 (name not confirmed) by 2010 planned: 5 (2000), ? (2001), 7 planned (2001), 20 planned (2003). Currently after the 80th J-11, production will switch to the Su-30MKK.
    Su-30MKK: 40 ordered for delivery late 1999 for delivery August 2000 (10 in December 2000, 10 in August 2001) – 2005 with N-001M. A further 40 ordered late 2001 with Zhuk-MS radar. Options for 20-40 more will probably be exercised. Licence production as the J-13 is also rumoured. Weapons will include KAB-500Kr TV guided bombs, R-77 [AA-12 Adder], Kh-31P [AS-17 Krypton], anti-shipping Kh-59MK [AS-18 Kazoo, with 3rd Gen I/TARH guidance, 153.9 nm range], Kh-29T [AS-14 Kedge. Other weapons the Su-30MKK is said to be compatible with are the R-27ER [AA-10 Alamo C] and R-27ET [AA-10 Alamo D] AAM.
    Ethiopia 8 ex-Russian Su-27/UB delivered 1998.
    Eritrea at least 6 ex-Ukraine Su-27S/UB
    India 50 Su-30MKI ordered in earlier versions with upgrades to follow:
    Su-30K: 8 delivered in 1997, 10 in 1999 (ex-Indonesian order), planned to be refitted to SU-30MKI by 2003.
    Su-30MK: This was an intermediate standard with precision guided weapons capability added. As this had French and Israeli avionics, delayed by nuclear testing. These were probably not delivered and the definitive Su-30MKI development.
    Su-30MKI: 6 due mid-2002, 10-16 in 2003 and 2004. Licence production of 140 from 2004 planned (planned deliveries are 2004: 3, 2005: 6, 2006: 8, 2007 on: 10 a year. Production should end in 2017/2018)
    Kazakhstan 10 Su-27 , 6 (1997), 4 (1999) plus 10 more planned, all ex-Russian.
    Russia Around 395 all versions, with 2/3rd in Europe and 1/3rd in Asia. Russian Naval Aviation has 30. Syria 14 Su-27SK in service, more planned.
    Ukraine 67 Su-27 in service.
    Uzbekistan 30 Su-27 in service.
    Vietnam 7 Su-27SK, 5 Su-27UBK, with up to 24 more Flanker planned. Deliveries took place from early 1995 to early 1998.


    All Flanker versions have two CL1 pylons (Tandem). The UW1 pylon is not fitted to early SU-27S. The GSh-30-1 has 149 rounds and a rate of fire of 1800 rounds a minute (5 shots).
    Hardpoint Location CL1 FUS1 UW1 UW2 UW3 TIP
    Rating (kg)
    Ordnance Weight
    Air to Air Missiles
    R-73 [AA-11 Archer] xxx 1 1 1
    R-27R 1 1 1
    R-27ER 1 1
    R-27T 1
    R-27ET 1
    R-77 1 1 1 1
    Unguided Weapons
    FAB-500M54 3 1 4 FAB-500M62 2 1 2
    BETAB-500 2 1 2
    FAB-250 3 3 3 3 1
    FAB-100 6 6 5 6 1
    UB-13 RP 1 1 2
    KMGU 1 1 1
    Guided Weapons
    Kh-29T 1 1 1
    Kh-31P 1 1 1
    Kh-25MP 2
    Kh-25PD 2
    Kh-59 1
    KAB-500Kr 1 1 1
    Other
    L-005 Sorebtsiya 1
    2000 litre drop tank 1598 1
    Attached Files
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  • #2
    All else being equal, what would you rather go into combat with, an Su-27 or an F-15?
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll take the Eagle over all but a few Flankers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah, but which Eagle? I'd go with F-15I, not just cuz it's Israeli, but cause I think some of the Israeli systems are better than the ones on the Strike Eagle
        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

        Comment


        • #5
          To the best of my knowledge the F-15K we are making for the South Koreans is going to be the best Eagle in the world. I may be completly wrong.

          Comment


          • #6
            The strike eagle isn't a fighter, it's a bomber.

            The F-15K is the ultimate eagle to date.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's a Fighter/Bomber

              Comment


              • #8
                The F-15K with the full US ECM libraries would be the best F-15 air superiority fighter right now. F-15I is not as well optimized for the Air superiority role. The F-15I is no slouch but the K is better optimized for the superiority role.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Where does the F-15K stand in A2G?
                  Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                  Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It has all the latest electronics for A2G, but is built on the lighter F-15C airframe, so is MUCH better at A2A than the F-15E or I.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The F-15K is like a super F-15E/I/S. It sports an AESA radar and the AIM-9X which puts it as the best F-15 to roll out. It is also to use the SLAM-ER, Popeye, HARM, Harpoon and you name it.


                      Ironman;

                      I would take the F-15 family over the Flankers. Most Flankers are not even combat ready and infact carry inferior weapons to the F-15s. For strike roles the Flankers look sad compared with the latest F-16s and Mirage 2000s much less the F-15s. For air to air the F-15 has reliable weapons unlike the Flankers.
                      Attached Files
                      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would take the F-15 family over the Flankers. Most Flankers are not even combat ready and infact carry inferior weapons to the F-15s. For strike roles the Flankers look sad compared with the latest F-16s and Mirage 2000s much less the F-15s. For air to air the F-15 has reliable weapons unlike the Flankers.
                        This on top of the fact that they have less money to maintain them and their pilots are on average massivly inferior to their western counterparts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The pilot means more than the aircraft. A lot more.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            >I would take the F-15 family over the Flankers. Most Flankers are not even combat ready and infact carry inferior weapons to the F-15s. For strike roles the Flankers look sad compared with the latest F-16s and Mirage 2000s much less the F-15s. For air to air the F-15 has reliable weapons unlike the Flankers

                            What does combat-rediness have to do with the cabalities of the aircraft itself? I mean, engineers did not predict Gorbachev with his "reforms." And I am not sure that Su-27's BASE MODEL from 1980's looks sad even compareing to the newsest F-16 block. Prove me wrong. And the reliable weapons-what's wrong with R-27 and R-73?

                            >This on top of the fact that they have less money to maintain them and their pilots are on average massivly inferior to their western counterparts.

                            That's off topic.

                            M21Sniper
                            >The pilot means more than the aircraft. A lot more.

                            Thank you! Put Israelis into Su-27's and Arabs-into F-15/16's, will the result change? Of course not.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think the Su-27 Flanker family of aircraft has always been my favorite fighter. Not sure why, just always has been.
                              Sukhoi really stole MiG's thunder with it and hasnt looked back since.
                              Know anybody who wants to buy some surplus MiG-29 Fulcrums?
                              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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