Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Russian Jet Maker Promises Stealthy Aircraft

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Highsea, though I can't remember the specifics (and I'm disinterested in digging through the compositions, but will if you're REALLY desperate lol) according to an article on the F-35 in either Airpower Review Journal, Wings/Airpower, or Aviation Week, a Lockheed designer stated that they did indeed aquire design plans of the Yak-141 VTOL system, specifically for the "three bearing" swivel mechanism for the main engine, to help them with the V/STOL X-35. He also noted that, it helped them more in knowing what NOT to do than what actually should be done. lol So, yes, Russian design tech was involved in developing the X-35.

    Injecteer, the control surfaces and controls of the F-22 are so good, it doesn't need a 3-D TV system to have the same supermaneuverability as a 3-D equipped Flanker.
    Last edited by Horrido; 12 Jan 06,, 06:42.
    The black flag is raised: Ban them all... Let the Admin sort them out.

    I know I'm going to have the last word... I have powers of deletion and lock.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by highsea
      Garry, which contract are you talking about here? This doesn't ring a bell with me the way you describe it. The MSIP prog. is done, and AFAIK, the ADCP upgrades are slated for the F-15E, F-18 E/F, and AV8-B as part of Bold Stroke.

      IOW, not an F-15C upgrade, and the 1.5bn seems waaaay wrong to me. Boeing invested about $100Mn. on Bold Stroke in dev. costs.

      Keep in mind, when talking about $1Bn in fleet upgrades, you are talking about only $2Mn per plane if you are talking about F-15's.
      Hi Highsea,

      Sorry I meant older contract. I am partially wrong meaning only computer.... it was also upgrade of radar (APG-63), computer and software. This was all done within MSIP II program. The R&D works in end of 1990-es was around $300mln and replacement of elements on around 400 units of F-15C/D cost then a $1bn. So it was less than $1.5bn by $200-300mln. I may be again making some minory mistakes but you know F-15 programs beter and I hope will correct me!

      Still the Su-30MKI program was done approximatelly same time (1999-2002) by private company.... it was more ambitions than to MSIP II and its R&D cost was $350mln including all stages of testing (completelly new radar tested, upgraded engine, canards, change of airframe, additional internal tanks, higher payload, cockpit avionics, computer).

      So my comparison holds as an example of huge difference in R&D costs.

      ps. just to correct myself. R&D costs on MKI were only $280mln I found it on the web site of the company (look on page 18 of the presentation)
      http://www.irkut.com/common//img/upl...05_new_eng.pdf

      or on page 10 there is an interesting comparison of different R&D projects of Irkut
      http://www.irkut.com/common//img/upl..._Show_eng4.pdf

      one more interesting in this presentation - a redesign of giant A-40 "Albatros" Mermaid into completelly different and much smaller Be-200 assumed total R&D costs of $265mln...... I doubt that anybody can match this cost efficiency (though it last many years!)..... or Design of completelly new aircraft Yak130 for $100mln (though there is some amount additionally financed by Aeromachi) ... this is damn cheap!!!
      Last edited by Garry; 12 Jan 06,, 13:32.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
        Please don't make me laugh. I can already tell you that the F-22's radar is way more powerful than this one's. I doubt it could pick up any stealth. Also do you know that Russia is replacing its MiG-31's in favor of the Su-27 family? So much for that.

        The MiG-31 could only shoot down a fighter if it got a couple of meters away, boy. Do you realise that its long-range armenant is too heavy to engage nible and agile fighters? Similar to the Pheonix missile that the F-14 had.

        The MiG-31 won't be outrunning any AIM-120, I hope you know. A MiG-31 pilot is as dead as a corn stock.

        1. F-22's radar may have slight power over the Mig-31, but not the Mig-1.44 "Raptor Killer" and Russia would favour the Su-30 over Foxhound only for economical purposes since it has saleable value, like an F-16 or Mirage.

        2. Then we can conclude that Spitfires and Mustangs can shoot down F-16s and Mirages better

        3. Foxhound and Foxbat missiles can actually shoot down SAMs and large size AAMs too. Like SR-71 pilots, nothing can touch them, they're fast birds. Speeds always better than stealth, thats why no trisonic SR-71 or Recee Mig-25R pilots have even been shot down, but F-117 has.

        Basically in short, F-22's nothing....its just an F-15 with plastic surgery

        Comment


        • #64
          Basically in short, F-22's nothing....its just an F-15 with plastic surgery


          Thats one of the biggest assnine statements I have seen yet on this thread. The two of them are worlds apart in severl catagories to say the very least. I would strongly reccomend reading each of their aeronautics first before making such accusations.
          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Dreadnought
            Basically in short, F-22's nothing....its just an F-15 with plastic surgery


            Thats one of the biggest assnine statements I have seen yet on this thread. The two of them are worlds apart in severl catagories to say the very least. I would strongly reccomend reading each of their aeronautics first before making such accusations.
            Well for the simple reason that, look back 30 years ago and you had the F-15 - although less inferior then the F-22, but with similar airframe, structure, speed, ceiling, dynamics, etc. Look back 30 years before 1972 and you had the P-15 Mustang, a lot more ancient than the then F-15 of those times ;)

            Comment


            • #66
              Hahh Hah! Assnine statement or not.....I'm right about that, the F-22 is indeed nothing but an F-15 with plastic surgery !

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Captain Drunk
                Hahh Hah! Assnine statement or not.....I'm right about that, the F-22 is indeed nothing but an F-15 with plastic surgery !

                Well Captain lets see the proof? And we shall go from there P.S. pack a lunch.
                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Im feeling rather generous today Captain so I will afford you both specs of the two you hold in comparrison, Now tell me about being an F18 with plastic surgery.

                  If need be I can start scrolling links for you to do your homework.

                  http://www.f22fighter.com/Specs.htm

                  http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...fa18cdspec.htm

                  My suggestion...Stop drinking the bilge water
                  Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Garry
                    Hi Highsea,

                    Sorry I meant older contract. I am partially wrong meaning only computer.... it was also upgrade of radar (APG-63), computer and software. This was all done within MSIP II program. The R&D works in end of 1990-es was around $300mln and replacement of elements on around 400 units of F-15C/D cost then a $1bn. So it was less than $1.5bn by $200-300mln. I may be again making some minory mistakes but you know F-15 programs beter and I hope will correct me!
                    Oh, okay.

                    The MSIP II prog was much more than just a computer upgrade. As you noted, the APG-63 was replaced by the APG-70 (tripling the processing power, increasing the memory by a factor of 10, and adding NCTR, LPI and SAR functionality). Also, the AC was wired and fitted for the AIM-120, a new electronic warfare suite was installed, with a new ECCM set (ALQ-135), new ECM (ALQ-135B or ALQ-128), a new RWR (ALR-56C), JTIDS, GPS, a new MFD for weapons control, a spread spectrum UHF, CFT's, and some other cockpit improvements.

                    That's a pretty major upgrade for $2.5 Mn. per AC, if your numbers are right. BTW, this was in the early '90's, not the end- the first MSIP II equipped F-15C flew in 1985.
                    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Captain Drunk
                      1. F-22's radar may have slight power over the Mig-31, but not the Mig-1.44 "Raptor Killer" and Russia would favour the Su-30 over Foxhound only for economical purposes since it has saleable value, like an F-16 or Mirage.

                      2. Then we can conclude that Spitfires and Mustangs can shoot down F-16s and Mirages better

                      3. Foxhound and Foxbat missiles can actually shoot down SAMs and large size AAMs too. Like SR-71 pilots, nothing can touch them, they're fast birds. Speeds always better than stealth, thats why no trisonic SR-71 or Recee Mig-25R pilots have even been shot down, but F-117 has.

                      Basically in short, F-22's nothing....its just an F-15 with plastic surgery
                      Alright I've had enough of your statements that you can't back up:

                      1) Not a bit, a whole lot. The F-22 has a radar (heard from someone) that is equivelent to a AWACS. The MiG-1.44 is nothing but a lot of BS made by MiG. Its a lot easier to pour crap out of your mouth than actually prove it.
                      2) If your going to make a counter-argument please have examples that are valid. The Spitfire and Mustang are so old their avionics and other **** are too. Please make valid things that have actually something to do with the argument.
                      3) Prove it. The days of speed are over. SAMS can pretty much take down any aircraft. Why do you figure that most fighters don't care a lot on speed that much anymore? I bet your thinking that every expert just turned into an idiot.

                      Oh really, can you back that BS up? I could say the Su-47 is just a Su-27 that's with some plastic surgery (actually it is since it gets a lot of its airframe from the Su-27). Hell they don't even look a like. There avionics are 20 years apart. Their engines are totally different (not even an upgrade). The internal design is different along with the cockpit configuration. Hell, even their landing gears are different I bet you. What a bunch of BS.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Captain Drunk
                        Hahh Hah! Assnine statement or not.....I'm right about that, the F-22 is indeed nothing but an F-15 with plastic surgery !
                        I usually don't take people's screennames literally, but I'm guessing you are drunk. ;)

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          The Burning Kid,

                          I would like to remind you of an old adage, glaringly appropriate at this time:

                          "Never argue with an idiot... They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."


                          In regards to the MiG 1.44, it can literally not even fend away the pigeons that are crapping all over it behind the hanger where it sits.
                          The black flag is raised: Ban them all... Let the Admin sort them out.

                          I know I'm going to have the last word... I have powers of deletion and lock.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Horrido
                            ..."Never argue with an idiot... They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
                            Another way to put that is:

                            Arguing over the Internet is kind of like running in the Special Olympics. You might win, but you're still retarded.

                            Don't get sucked in, BK, he's just trolling...
                            "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Horrido
                              The Burning Kid,

                              I would like to remind you of an old adage, glaringly appropriate at this time:

                              "Never argue with an idiot... They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."


                              In regards to the MiG 1.44, it can literally not even fend away the pigeons that are crapping all over it behind the hanger where it sits.
                              Sorry, I have a real bad temper when I argue with someone that doesn't know there information and keeps on making claims that aren't even provable. My bad.

                              As for the pigeons, LMAO! I did learn something: Russia has pigeons. lol

                              highsea: Well, what if he/she is injured person? That doesn't make him/her retarded unless I missed some new international law or something.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                                ...highsea: Well, what if he/she is injured person? That doesn't make him/her retarded unless I missed some new international law or something.
                                Who said anything about injuries??

                                The Mission of Special Olympics

                                The mission of Special Olympics is to provide year-round sports training and athletic competition in a variety of Olympic-type sports for children and adults with intellectual disabilities*, giving them continuing opportunities to develop physical fitness, demonstrate courage, experience joy and participate in a sharing of gifts, skills and friendship with their families, other Special Olympics athletes and the community.

                                * Intellectual disabilities is synonymous with mental retardation; please see the Special Olympics Language Guide for more information.

                                http://www.specialolympics.org/Speci...on/default.htm
                                "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X