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  • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
    Nah, its not my type of club. ;) Also I don't need to being figuring out the similarities between the cockpits since there isn't any. The F-15 wins hands down.
    Then why did you said that Su-37 cockpit is similar to SR-71?

    As for the article, so that's just one source vs 10 others. I'm not convinced yet especially considering the webpage which looks more like an amateurs than an actual professional one.
    Until claims are verified with other side documents they are just that - unconfirmed claims. To verify, and to find a historical truth is an important job no matter you like it or not.

    Besides... are you familiar at all with the Korean War?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lurker
      Then why did you said that Su-37 cockpit is similar to SR-71?
      Maybe I made a little missaying: in terms of quality it does remind me of the SR-71.

      Until claims are verified with other side documents they are just that - unconfirmed claims. To verify, and to find a historical truth is an important job no matter you like it or not.

      Besides... are you familiar at all with the Korean War?
      No I was in acoma during the Korean War.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
        Maybe I made a little missaying: in terms of quality it does remind me of the SR-71.
        LOL Ok. I figure that you are the frequent user of both, so you can compare the quality ;)

        No I was in acoma during the Korean War.
        But you so easily operate with F-86 vs. Mig-15 effectiveness numbers, so you must be at least read something about that?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Captain Drunk
          In my considered opinion, no F-5 or F-8 is better than any 4th generation Fishbed currently in service, heck if I know whether F-5s and F-8s are even flying today. Also the PAF that had F-86s also operated the F-104 Starfighter, Mirage IIIs and Chinese F-6s at the time, while the sole good fighter IAF had was the Fishbed.

          Excuse me, but why are you involving modern, updated MiG-21's in regards to events in 1971? Shouldn't you be focusing on comparing peer aircraft of the same era that actually operated against each other? I had forgotten about F-104's, I would very much like to see their performance against MiG-21's, as well.


          Lurker, I find it VERY telling your quote from the Korean War Aces website omits any references to actual kill/loss ratios. We KNOW kills were over-claimed by the US, kills are over-claimed by EVERYONE in wartime. The only way to be close is to tally who didn't come home that day, and try to determine the reason, which is what the book I have with the Soviet pilot interviews did. The Soviet pilots themselves stated at how frustrated they were with the outcome. They were losing, they knew it.
          The black flag is raised: Ban them all... Let the Admin sort them out.

          I know I'm going to have the last word... I have powers of deletion and lock.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Horrido
            Lurker, I find it VERY telling your quote from the Korean War Aces website omits any references to actual kill/loss ratios. We KNOW kills were over-claimed by the US, kills are over-claimed by EVERYONE in wartime. The only way to be close is to tally who didn't come home that day, and try to determine the reason, which is what the book I have with the Soviet pilot interviews did. The Soviet pilots themselves stated at how frustrated they were with the outcome. They were losing, they knew it.
            I've seen interviews with them also. I dont' remember anything like that, but they said that US side twisted the whole story 180 degrees, and made it look like US haven't lost anything there.

            OoE was posting an article about Korean war, where it was noted that for tens of years history of that war was incorrectly presented because of propaganda needs. And much more correct books started appearing only recently.

            Anyway: Why do you think Allies bombed a sh*t out of Gernamy in 1945, and they could not do the same with Koreans just 5-6 years later? What changed?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lurker
              Anyway: Why do you think Allies bombed a sh*t out of Gernamy in 1945, and they could not do the same with Koreans just 5-6 years later? What changed?

              My stats are fuzzy, here, and these are just generalizations from what I've read over the years.

              Number one reason, NK was not industrialized, so few targets to bomb. You don't destroy cities for the fun of it, there must be a tactical or strategic reason to do so. The only real targets to go after were bridges, crossroads, railroad junctures, and ports, and few of those at best. When it came to massively bombing those targets, they did, with near impunity. The Allies had, for all intents and purposes, unfettered air support over Korea to attack NK and PRC forces which were pounded relentlessly. If I remember correctly, no US soldier has died from enemy air attack since WW II (I may be wrong, knowing that La-5/7 fighters and Il-2/10 Shturmoviks were employed by N. Korea). Yes, the MiG-15 was a nasty surprise, but my impression is that it did not seriously hamper the B-29 bombing effort, especially after escorts were assigned.

              The same could be said for Vietnam: more ordinance was dropped in Vietnam than in all of WW II, yet we didn't level their cities, either.
              The black flag is raised: Ban them all... Let the Admin sort them out.

              I know I'm going to have the last word... I have powers of deletion and lock.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lurker
                LOL. Aren't you enjoying the moment? ...and then orhers come and give us a lecture how they just born-o-be truth loving.
                Uh yeah, actually we are "just born-o-be truth loving".

                It sure beats the alternative. You know, like in Communist countries?

                Are you "Born-o-be not knowing what real truth is thanks to your government loving?."

                Originally posted by lurker
                Anyway: Why do you think Allies bombed a sh*t out of Gernamy in 1945, and they could not do the same with Koreans just 5-6 years later? What changed?
                Horrido responded to you quite nicely on this one, but I have to ask:
                Are you really seriously ingnorant of the political and sociological differences between World War II and the Korean War or are you just being a smart alec?

                Originally posted by Horrido
                If I remember correctly, no US soldier has died from enemy air attack since WW II (I may be wrong, knowing that La-5/7 fighters and Il-2/10 Shturmoviks were employed by N. Korea).
                The actual (and factual) claim is "Since the Korean War....".
                And I rather doubt that UN troops were attacked very often by DPRK, PRC or USSR-piloted aircraft very often at all during the Korean War itself.

                Though I'm sure getting a haircut from a Shturmovik was not fun at all.
                Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                  Maybe I made a little missaying: in terms of quality it does remind me of the SR-71.
                  You obviously don't know anything about SU-37 or SR-71 if you say that.


                  Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Rusky
                    You obviously don't know anything about SU-37 or SR-71 if you say that.
                    Most likely more than you do. Why don't you just open your eyes and actually look at the two. The damn Su-37 looks like it would fall apart if someone were to push a button.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lurker
                      LOL Ok. I figure that you are the frequent user of both, so you can compare the quality ;)
                      Nah, I just use common sense and look at the pictures. It something we Homo Sapiens have: a brain. ;) I'm guessing your not part of the species.

                      But you so easily operate with F-86 vs. Mig-15 effectiveness numbers, so you must be at least read something about that?
                      *notes the sarcastic smilie used in post.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                        Most likely more than you do. Why don't you just open your eyes and actually look at the two. The damn Su-37 looks like it would fall apart if someone were to push a button.
                        The thing is that i did look at the two, you haven't, i showed you pics of the cockpits, it looks just as modern as any in the west.

                        It would fall apart? Was that even a serious statement? Either way no it would not fall apart, gosh, if you going to try to argue a wrong position atleast try to BS your lack of argument.


                        Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

                        Comment


                        • Shenyang Aircraft Industry Co. (SAC) has been selected to head research and development of a new Stealth Fighter for the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) the JXX, looks quite like a copy cat version if the F-22 :

                          http://www.hitechweb.szm.sk/fighters...seFighter1.jpg

                          Now if China can afford that, surely Russia can have better

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                            How? All I see is BS pouring from your mouth and nothing else. I will always take a upgraded American plane over a Russian plane because our quality, our technology are ahead of you, no matter what you say, go ask someone that knows something (aircraft expert), and they will reinforce what I just said. Also our combat record has everything to say about that.
                            Right, the thing is that no your technology is not ahead of ours. SU-37s electronics are completely competitive with the Americans ones, hey i gave you info for hte SU-37 radar, why don't you proove me wrong with some factual information?

                            Oh really, why don't you provide me a link to this? I bet its that lab testing they've been doing. If you think that has solved all the problems, well then you are high off something.
                            Sure, i will.

                            http://uploads.abovetopsecret.com/ats15684_sweetman.txt

                            Here we go. I am not high, i just know what i am talking about, and you do not.


                            India doesn't even operate Su-27s (let alone have any). It operates Su-30MKIs (along with some Su-30MKs which will be upgraded to I statues). And if your using that test to compare the two, then I figured out two things about you: 1) you have no knowlege or common sense whatsoever 2) you let your pride get in your way to see through to the facts.
                            Actually it seems that you are the one who has no knowledge of facts, you keep claiming that US technology is more advanced then Russian technology, that is simply not the case and you can't find any proof that it is, so why are you talking?



                            [quote\Why don't you prove that? Every expert that I've seen (on news articles on stuff) all state that Russian avionics are behind US avionics. And its true. Have you seen your own photo? The Su-37 doesn't even look as advanced as the F-15 or F-16 cockpits, let alone even look like it will hold when it flies. I think you guys probably used duck tape to keep that thing together.[/quote]

                            Right...eh...i just gave you the photoes of the cockpit that show that SU-37 has LCD displays and looks just as advanced as F-16 and F-15, even more advanced then F-15 actually. You're in denial. As for your claim about it falling apart, seriously dude, just shut up, you're pulling to much ******** out of your ass. Who cares how it looks? It flies and it is loads more maneuvarable then any US aicraft, even F-22.



                            Who says? I'll provide you some comparison between them, later on after I eat lunch.
                            Please do.



                            It halarious how Russians state that they will match the F-22's capability at only 1/4th the cost. I don't see that happening in anyway, unless they actively just steal ideas from the US since they can't do anything themselves. But I will tell you that the Russian sites just say that, the official government stated that the PAK-FA would compete with the F-35 in capability and commericially. Sukhoi just states that it will compete with the F-22 to get some propangda and interest the Russian government further even if it is BS in the end.
                            Now thats just your BS opinion, you don't know anything about PAK-FA and its planned capabilities and neither can you read Russian. As for your first statement, does all that ******** hurt coming out of your ass?



                            Overexagurated? Why don't you go look at our kill ratio before blabbing your mouth. Our radars, avionics are much better than the Russian counterparts. Its proven fact, why don't you go pick up a library book on it. Or even better, just look at the inside of the cockpits.
                            I did, and those pics proove you wrong. Your radars and avionics are not better, hey please, lets do a side by side comparison, i gave you the info for the SU-37 radar, give me the info for one of your nation's radars.



                            Who's ranting? I'm just busting all your claims that you make that are obviously lies. Also just because you say something doesn't make it true. I can say that "Pigs can fly" but hell can they? No.
                            The thing is i provide factual information, you provide baseless speculation and ignore factual information. Look at the cockpits, god, you're in denial.


                            Damn, you are dum. I guess you must have also compromised Russian security since you had pictures of the cockpit. I mean there isn't anyway other to see the inside cockpit of the Su-37 without sneaking into it.
                            Oh, so you saw the pics? And you claim that they look like SR-71? Are you retarded or have vision problems or both? Those pics show that SU-37 avionics are just modern as those of the western aircraft.

                            As for your 12 year old comment, if you ask anyone hear, they will tell you I don't act like a 12 year old (and 12 years old don't even have that much knowledge) but what can I get from someone who has the same level of capacity as an 8 year old.
                            Wow, nice come back, "i am not but you are", heh. But you do act like a 12 year old. You make wild, illogical speculation, give zero facts and then you end up in a tight space you deny factual information brought up against you (going back to the pics). Grow up and smell your own ********.


                            Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                              Nah, I just use common sense and look at the pictures. It something we Homo Sapiens have: a brain. ;) I'm guessing your not part of the species.
                              Oh please, tell me what is so premitive about the SU-37 cockpit? It has three anti-glare LCD screens, and no chronometers insight. How the hell is the F-16 or F-15 cockpit any better?
                              Last edited by Rusky; 15 Jan 06,, 03:27.


                              Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Insomniac
                                Actually the Su-37's cockpit is never cleaned properly and the pictures of the Eagle and Falcon cockpits were taken from one of Jane's games so of course they look better with computer graphics. Plus those were the older F-15A and F-16A. The Su-30MKI is far more high tech than the Su-37, because it is a combat ready aircraft and not a demonstrator. Same goes for the "C" models to the "A" models.
                                Eh....no, SU-37 is more advanced then SU-30MKI, infact it has the better avionics then any other Russian aircraft. And it is combat ready, S-37 or SU-47 was a demonstrator, SU-37 is already out, its just not in mass production yet, it takes time to get all the investments in and set the factories up.


                                Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

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