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  • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
    Like your Russian propangda? Ha, and what facts? Facts from China, North Korea, and Soviet Union? I keep my word on the US. Why don't you go ask someone that actually knows something other than blabbing your mouth on. Ask anyone if the F-86 had a bigger kill ratio than the MiG-15, and you'll get, "Yes"
    What you are doing now is called ignorance, but okay. You don't know anything, neither does anyone who supports your ridiculus view that US aircraft are infinitely superior, their not, they have their advantages but a lot of Russian planes outbest a lot of them.



    Ah, you just showed how much knowledge you have. I do wish to ask you one thing, if that article you have is so correct, why haven't we seen an aircraft that displays this capability yet? Oh yeah, because its not plausible.
    Eh, Jane's has seen an aircraft displaying the plasma stealth the way Russia wants to go with it, i repeat, the cloud idea was dropped. Get the memo.

    You could at least get your aircrafts right, though I didn't expect much from you. India operates Su-30MKIs not Su-27s. To you they might be the same, but they are not. Also those engagements, I believe if you looked at them, the F-15's were outnumbered, stripped of their AESA, didn't have AWACs suppport, and had to fight WVR. All these didn't apply to the Su-30MKI.
    They used Su-27s in that test. Either way, F-15 has nothing on Su-30MKI, simply nothing.



    Damn, you really live in a shell I guess. Have you seen the inside cockpit of a Su-37? It took them till the 1990s to get where America was 2 decades before.
    Well, its obvious that you haven't. It features LCD screens and other such things, either way, SU-37s electronics are just as capable as whatever US has. That is a fact.



    Uh, it would. F-15 ACTIVE had very impressive capability, at least matching the Su-30MKI if not surpassing it (the F-22 already does that over the Su-30MKI).
    Right, heh, you said all of those aircraft, either way where is no aircraft more maneuvarable then the superflanker. And what you gave me was nothing, just your baseless speculation.


    Another pointer of your lack of knowledge. Russia stated that it is suppose to compete against the F-35. Don't believe me? Go ask someone on the forum.
    I don't have to, i have seen official documents posted on the Sukhoi website, written in Russian language that state that PAK-FA will have capabilities of F-22. What you call compete you misinterpreted for their goal for PAK-FA to compete with JSF on the global market, not in capabilities, F-22 is not at all competitive commercially, its simply too expensive.



    If you honestly think that my statement about BVR being the dominate form of AtA, then you honestly are in acoma I guess. I doubt I need to explain further.
    I know that BVR are the dominant form. I also know that you overexagurated the advantages of American aircraft in BVR over latest russian aircraft. So whats your point?



    Yep, I've seen the inside of a Su-37 and it isn't very advanced. It looks like the SR-71's which was developed during the 60s (maybe I can give you guys some credit and say the 70s compared to us).
    Right, obviously you haven't seen anything. Please stop ranting, its ridiculus. Either way, as i said SU-37 has LCD screens, and advanced avionics, that is also a fact you can not possibly counter.
    Last edited by Rusky; 14 Jan 06,, 04:03.


    Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

    Comment


    • Lets see

      SU-37 cockpit:

      http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...es/su-37_7.jpg

      SR-71 Cockpit:

      http://www.xp-office.de/SR71/Bilder/sr71cockpit_jpg.jpg

      Still want to continue to claim that you seen either of them? Any more comments?

      but maybe you should also see

      F-16 cockpit

      http://www.abacuspub.com/wbe/f16_cockpit.jpg

      F-15 cockpit

      http://www.abacuspub.com/fsd/premier/f15/cockpit_02.jpg

      See how SU-37 has much less chronometers (is that how you call them in english?)


      Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

      Comment


      • SU-37 Radar

        Phazotron N011 Zhuk 27 multimode low-altitude terrain-following/avoidance radar, search range 54 n miles (100 km; 62 miles) in forward sector, 30 n miles (55 km; 34 miles) rearward, able to track 10 targets and engage four simultaneously. Phazotron Zhuk-PH phased-array radar under development for later use, search range 89 to 132 n miles (165 to 245 km; 102 to 152 miles) in forward sector, 32 n miles (60 km; 37 miles) rearward, with simultaneous tracking of 24 air targets and ripple-fire engagement of six; N014 rearward-facing radar, range approximately 2 n miles (4 km; 2.5 miles), may enable firing of rearward-facing IR homing air-to-air missiles. Flight: Fully automatic flight modes and armament control against ground, maritime and air targets, including automatic low-altitude flight and automatic target designation. RPKB nav system includes laser-gyro INS and Glonass GPS. Instrumentation: EFIS, with three colour CRTs; HUD. Mission: New-type IRST moved to starboard; small external TV pod; all combat flight phases computerised. Shown at Farnborough with GEC Ferranti TIALD (thermal imaging airborne laser designator) night/adverse visibility pod fitted for possible future use. Self-defence: Enhanced ECM, including wingtip jammer pods; RWR.

        Now can you get me info on the AN/APG-63(V)2 F-15C uses?


        Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
          ...

          Yep, I've seen the inside of a Su-37 and it isn't very advanced. It looks like the SR-71's which was developed during the 60s (maybe I can give you guys some credit and say the 70s compared to us).
          Blah, that was lame.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lurker
            Blah, that was lame.
            Yeah, i mean if you are going to lie about something atleast make sure that you can back your story up with something. Anyways, i provided the pics, guess he never been inside a SU-37, i don't understand how he could have been in one of those i mean they are highly secutiry protected protype aircraft, they not just shown to any 12 year old yank with ego problems.


            Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
              Like your Russian propangda? Ha, and what facts? Facts from China, North Korea, and Soviet Union?
              I have to admit that totalitarian regimes like those mentioned are not historically known for being too concerned with things like "facts" and "truth".

              To countries like those, the truth is like ice cream.

              Easily melted.
              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

              Comment


              • F-86 was no Mig-Killer, all make belief.
                You are calling Soviet fighter pilots that served in the Korean war liars? In regards to Korean war Saber vs. MiG kills, Soviet records and SOVIET pilot interviews demonstrate the BEST the Soviets ever did was 3 MiG-15's lost to ONE Saber. The war average for SOVIET piloted MiG's to Sabers was 5 to 1. Chinese and Korean MiG's died by the pantload. While the MiG-15's performance was ever-so-slightly superior to the Saber at altitude, because of the Saber's all-flying tail and superior flight controls leading to greater pilot comfort and endurance during missions and combat, the combat edge went to the Saber, and demonstrably so.

                either way, SU-37s electronics are just as capable as whatever US has. That is a fact.
                In regard to the Su-37, why are people yammering on about a NON-EXISTENT AIRCRAFT as if it was even in service? The SOLE Su-37 was reconverted back to Su-30-standard and then converted into a smoking hole at the Paris Airshow a few years back. That FACT is, the last thing the Su-37's electronics were good for was roasting s'mores.

                They used Su-27s in that test. Either way, F-15 has nothing on Su-30MKI, simply nothing.
                Yes, it does, actually: 25 years, which is exactly how far behind Russian technology is compared to the US. (See F-22 RAPTOR)

                In fact the IAF Mig-21 'Sabre-Killer' made the skies in 1971, killing fields for PAF F-86s.
                That's a really sad thing to take pride in, it's like a highschooler boasting about how tough he is for beating up an eight-year-old. Now if the PAF had been armed with F-8 Crusaders (or F-5 Tigersharks), you might have had an argument had F-8's not kicked MiG-21 tail all over North Vietnam.
                The black flag is raised: Ban them all... Let the Admin sort them out.

                I know I'm going to have the last word... I have powers of deletion and lock.

                Comment


                • In my considered opinion, no F-5 or F-8 is better than any 4th generation Fishbed currently in service, heck if I know whether F-5s and F-8s are even flying today. Also the PAF that had F-86s also operated the F-104 Starfighter, Mirage IIIs and Chinese F-6s at the time, while the sole good fighter IAF had was the Fishbed.
                  Last edited by Captain Drunk; 14 Jan 06,, 10:00.

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                  • Originally posted by Rusky
                    What you are doing now is called ignorance, but okay. You don't know anything, neither does anyone who supports your ridiculus view that US aircraft are infinitely superior, their not, they have their advantages but a lot of Russian planes outbest a lot of them.

                    How? All I see is BS pouring from your mouth and nothing else. I will always take a upgraded American plane over a Russian plane because our quality, our technology are ahead of you, no matter what you say, go ask someone that knows something (aircraft expert), and they will reinforce what I just said. Also our combat record has everything to say about that.

                    Eh, Jane's has seen an aircraft displaying the plasma stealth the way Russia wants to go with it, i repeat, the cloud idea was dropped. Get the memo.
                    Oh really, why don't you provide me a link to this? I bet its that lab testing they've been doing. If you think that has solved all the problems, well then you are high off something.

                    They used Su-27s in that test. Either way, F-15 has nothing on Su-30MKI, simply nothing.
                    India doesn't even operate Su-27s (let alone have any). It operates Su-30MKIs (along with some Su-30MKs which will be upgraded to I statues). And if your using that test to compare the two, then I figured out two things about you: 1) you have no knowlege or common sense whatsoever 2) you let your pride get in your way to see through to the facts.

                    Well, its obvious that you haven't. It features LCD screens and other such things, either way, SU-37s electronics are just as capable as whatever US has. That is a fact.
                    Why don't you prove that? Every expert that I've seen (on news articles on stuff) all state that Russian avionics are behind US avionics. And its true. Have you seen your own photo? The Su-37 doesn't even look as advanced as the F-15 or F-16 cockpits, let alone even look like it will hold when it flies. I think you guys probably used duck tape to keep that thing together.

                    Right, heh, you said all of those aircraft, either way where is no aircraft more maneuvarable then the superflanker. And what you gave me was nothing, just your baseless speculation.
                    Who says? I'll provide you some comparison between them, later on after I eat lunch.

                    I don't have to, i have seen official documents posted on the Sukhoi website, written in Russian language that state that PAK-FA will have capabilities of F-22. What you call compete you misinterpreted for their goal for PAK-FA to compete with JSF on the global market, not in capabilities, F-22 is not at all competitive commercially, its simply too expensive.
                    It halarious how Russians state that they will match the F-22's capability at only 1/4th the cost. I don't see that happening in anyway, unless they actively just steal ideas from the US since they can't do anything themselves. But I will tell you that the Russian sites just say that, the official government stated that the PAK-FA would compete with the F-35 in capability and commericially. Sukhoi just states that it will compete with the F-22 to get some propangda and interest the Russian government further even if it is BS in the end.

                    I know that BVR are the dominant form. I also know that you overexagurated the advantages of American aircraft in BVR over latest russian aircraft. So whats your point?
                    Overexagurated? Why don't you go look at our kill ratio before blabbing your mouth. Our radars, avionics are much better than the Russian counterparts. Its proven fact, why don't you go pick up a library book on it. Or even better, just look at the inside of the cockpits.

                    Right, obviously you haven't seen anything. Please stop ranting, its ridiculus. Either way, as i said SU-37 has LCD screens, and advanced avionics, that is also a fact you can not possibly counter.
                    Who's ranting? I'm just busting all your claims that you make that are obviously lies. Also just because you say something doesn't make it true. I can say that "Pigs can fly" but hell can they? No.

                    Yeah, i mean if you are going to lie about something atleast make sure that you can back your story up with something. Anyways, i provided the pics, guess he never been inside a SU-37, i don't understand how he could have been in one of those i mean they are highly secutiry protected protype aircraft, they not just shown to any 12 year old yank with ego problems.
                    Damn, you are dum. I guess you must have also compromised Russian security since you had pictures of the cockpit. I mean there isn't anyway other to see the inside cockpit of the Su-37 without sneaking into it.

                    As for your 12 year old comment, if you ask anyone hear, they will tell you I don't act like a 12 year old (and 12 years old don't even have that much knowledge) but what can I get from someone who has the same level of capacity as an 8 year old.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rusky
                      Yeah, i mean if you are going to lie about something atleast make sure that you can back your story up with something. Anyways, i provided the pics, guess he never been inside a SU-37, i don't understand how he could have been in one of those i mean they are highly secutiry protected protype aircraft, they not just shown to any 12 year old yank with ego problems.
                      LOL. Aren't you enjoying the moment? Burning_Kid is lying his a** off, and then orhers come and give us a lecture how they just born-o-be truth loving.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by lurker
                        LOL. Aren't you enjoying the moment? Burning_Kid is lying his a** off, and then orhers come and give us a lecture how they just born-o-be truth loving.
                        Congratulations, you joined the dumba*s club. Both you and Rusky and Captain Drunk are life-time members with platinum membership cards.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                          Congratulations, you joined the dumba*s club. Both you and Rusky and Captain Drunk are life-time members with platinum membership cards.
                          Gonna give me your own card? ;) I thought you should be busy figuring out similarities between the cockpits

                          Comment


                          • Ok, name calling aside.

                            Found a good website that has someting related to the Korean War discussion:
                            Korean War Aces
                            Claims

                            The numbers shown above, and used throughout, are claims, and are almost certainly in excess of the actual number of MiGs downed. During the war the USAF pilots claimed over 800 enemy planes. Postwar research revised that figure downward to 379, which closely matches the admitted Russian losses of 345. The Air Force has not disclosed, perhaps does not fully know, which pilot claims to revise, so the contemporary numbers stand, although, as in all claims for aerial victories, the claims exceed the other side's documented losses.

                            Adjusted Claims per Soviet Data

                            In the years since the breakup of the old Soviet Union, records relating to the Korean War have come to light. Aviation history researchers like Cookie Sewall and Diego Zampini have pored over these records and have been able to correlate Soviet records of specific aerial battles on specific dates, and thus documented certain over-claims by the USAF pilots. As noted above, over-claims have occurred in all wars and amongst all combatant nations. John Lundstrom similarly researched American overclaims versus Japanese air forces in WW2.
                            Note that those researhers are not Russian, not "grew up in a totalitarian environment", so they not necessary "concerned in twisting the truth".
                            Last edited by lurker; 14 Jan 06,, 22:15.

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                            • Originally posted by lurker
                              Gonna give me your own card? ;) I thought you should be busy figuring out similarities between the cockpits
                              Nah, its not my type of club. ;) Also I don't need to being figuring out the similarities between the cockpits since there isn't any. The F-15 wins hands down.

                              As for the article, so that's just one source vs 10 others. I'm not convinced yet especially considering the webpage which looks more like an amateurs than an actual professional one.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                                Why don't you prove that? Every expert that I've seen (on news articles on stuff) all state that Russian avionics are behind US avionics. And its true. Have you seen your own photo? The Su-37 doesn't even look as advanced as the F-15 or F-16 cockpits, let alone even look like it will hold when it flies. I think you guys probably used duck tape to keep that thing together.
                                Actually the Su-37's cockpit is never cleaned properly and the pictures of the Eagle and Falcon cockpits were taken from one of Jane's games so of course they look better with computer graphics. Plus those were the older F-15A and F-16A. The Su-30MKI is far more high tech than the Su-37, because it is a combat ready aircraft and not a demonstrator. Same goes for the "C" models to the "A" models.

                                Su-30MKI Cockpit (Front seat):

                                F-15C Cockpit:

                                F-16C Cockpit:

                                Looks pretty comparable to me.

                                Note: Where I got these photos is none of your concern.
                                Last edited by Insomniac; 14 Jan 06,, 22:33.

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