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  • Originally posted by TopHatter
    How about this one? http://www.nasa.gov/lb/centers/dryde...-048-DFRC.html



    Good enough for you, or do you need more?
    Not really, i sited a source that clears it all out for you, i edited my other post. 3d means up-down, left-right, and diagonal, F-15 ACTIVE doesn't have the diagonal capability so its 2D.


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    • Originally posted by Rusky
      Not really, i sited a source that clears it all out for you, i edited my other post. 3d means up-down, left-right, and diagonal, F-15 ACTIVE doesn't have the diagonal capability so its 2D.
      Uh yes it does. Also 3D doesn't mean just diagonal but also only up-down, left-right. A 2D is one that can only go up-down.

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      • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
        Uh yes it does. Also 3D doesn't mean just diagonal but also only up-down, left-right. A 2D is one that can only go up-down.
        No it does not, look at my link and the quote from that link.

        Either way guys, this is getting out of hand, lets agree to talk in a more civil manner, i'll try to do my part.


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        • Originally posted by Rusky
          Not really, i sited a source that clears it all out for you, i edited my other post. 3d means up-down, left-right, and diagonal, F-15 ACTIVE doesn't have the diagonal capability so its 2D.
          What part of ANY direction is unclear to you? Is this a language problem?
          Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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          • Originally posted by TopHatter
            What part of ANY direction is unclear to you? Is this a language problem?
            read the little quote i dervied from there, it can only go up-down and side to side.


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            • Lets restate our positions here so we can have a more clear argument in the future.


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              • My position is that both Russian and US are technological advanced nations with great military and civilian device making potential and practice. Russian jet fighters are just as capable as any american jet fighter aside from F-22 an alternative of which we are designing right now. The claim that Russia is 25 years or even a decade behind US in technology is ridiculs. As i said before, US has purchased several Russian technologies they did not have, they have used concepts theorized or practiced by Russia (a part of stealth theorization concepts was done by Soviet Union), they have cooperated with Russia on many different projects that ended up developing some of the best technologies in the world (Boeing has set up an R&D stand in Russia, the only other one in the world is in Seattle, also Russian and American companies have been known to cooperate on rocket booster development, etc.). Russia is superior to US in technology in some aspects, US is superior in others, but both nations are about on the level, yes US made a step forward with AESA, but that only gives Russia initiative to do better and we will do better, and then you do better, and we will do better again, that has been the driving force for the development of new technologies in both nations for the past 50 years.


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                • Originally posted by Rusky
                  Thats F-22, a 5th generation aircraft, thats not the radar on F-18
                  Ah, the F/A-18E/F's radar along with the F-15C's are going to be similar (a little less powerful for the F-15C while the F/A-18E/F will be directed for strike missions more than AtA).

                  Just look around the net, there is plenty evidence to back those statements up.
                  I did, and I didn't find any, all just speculation and no hard facts.

                  Once again you are not comparing planes of the same class, so that doesn't count for ****.
                  Ah yes, they are. Also the same could be said about comparing the F-15 to a Su-37, yet no one ever says anything about that (F-15 = 4th, Su-37 = 4++)

                  Everybody here? You mean you? Because you are the only one retarded enough to not see that the equipment is on the level, and is the software.
                  No I mean everyone here.

                  Yeah we do, we do it by finding different solutions, something Russia has been besting US at since cold war began. For example use of the integral configuration and 3d vector thrusters will give it a much more manuevarable and controlled performance then F-22. The plasma stealth described in the link i provided doubled with more traditional stealth methods like RAM paint will supply the plane with enough stealth power. And since all the same technologies are available to you as to us, i don't see any reason why the avionics on that plane would not be on the level. I got a counter argument, you're just denying it because you can't refute.
                  Do you even listen to what I say? Plasma stealth can't be used unless Russia has learned to defy the laws of physics. And manueverability, like it or not, is significantly less important in this world with combat going to BVR most of the time.

                  You need to grow up, denial is such a childish defense.
                  That statement right there is denial.

                  You don't provide me with ****. And i am not mad, saying ******** then i see ******** and call it ******** doesn't mean i am mad. Either way, your reasoning on judging the cockpit is ridiculus. Please tell me what is so premitive about it? It has LCD screens, almost no chronometers and up to date software, stop pulling stuff out of your ass.
                  Oh really, because the number of cuss words you used in that is pretty a good counterargument against that. As for the LCD obsession you have, exactly how does that help? And how would you know it has up-to-date software? Do you fly it? Doubt so.

                  Why does that matter? God, the number of them doesn't matter, their presence matters and the software used matters, both of which are modern.
                  I ask again, how do you know?

                  I highly doubt is can do Stop Cobra, thats a bit of a more difficult maneuver.
                  Someone had a thread somewhere around here a while ago showing the F-22 could do that trick. I'll try to dig it out. And a stop cobra does little in combat. Bleeding speed is not very wise idea.

                  Eh, it has 2d vectors, but please, give me a source that says otherwise.
                  Here is a link for you:

                  http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2000-000372.html

                  "giving the aircraft thrust control in the pitch (up and down) and yaw (left and right) directions"

                  3d means, up-down, left-right, and diagonal. Look at its pics, its thrusters are put too close together to move diagonally.

                  And someone already provided you a source. If you want another one, I'll happily show you. Also no, they are far enough to be able to do diagonal.

                  No, i just don't read news from redneck.com like you do.
                  More like you live in a cave.

                  Lol, agian with the denial. You haven't broken ****, you haven't given me the stats i asked for, you haven't explained to me why you think the SU-37 cockpit is not as advanced, and you mistakingly claimed that F-15 ACTIVE has 3d thrust vectoring. And also what good is targeting at 200 km if your missile can only fly 50? Common kid, i am sure you can push more BS out of your ass if you try hard enough.
                  That is where you are wrong. All you need is common sense to see that the Su-37 doesn't even look very advanced, the F-15 ACTIVE does have 3d vectoring (don't even argue on that because it is dead), and if you didn't make up stuffy you would know that the AIM-120 can pull of 75 km while the AIM-120D can pull off 110 km.

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                  • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid



                    You keep saying that the Su-37 is better than all the rest, where do you come up with this? Out of your ass like all your other BS? As for Cobra, the F-22 can do that, along with the F-15 ACTIVE, F-18 HARV, F-16 MATV.



                    The F-15 ACTIVE has a 3D TVC. Halarious, it got performance that the Su-37 matched a decade later.
                    Just for the record....a decade from now, a new Su - fighter will be beating the F-22 in 'TVC' like maneuvers, we all know ;)

                    Su-37 is better than F-15 ACTIVE, F-18 HARV and F-16 MATV. This month on Republic Day an IAF Su-30's gonna perform a new 'Trishul' maneuver that beats everything.

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                    • Originally posted by Captain Drunk
                      Just for the record....a decade from now, a new Su - fighter will be beating the F-22 in 'TVC' like maneuvers, we all know ;)

                      Su-37 is better than F-15 ACTIVE, F-18 HARV and F-16 MATV. This month on Republic Day an IAF Su-30's gonna perform a new 'Trishul' maneuver that beats everything.
                      A decade from know, the Su plane will be doing a move and then the Raptor pilot will be laughing as the Su gets hit by a missile and blows up.

                      So other than saying BS, you can't prove it can you? I thought so.

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                      • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                        Ah, the F/A-18E/F's radar along with the F-15C's are going to be similar (a little less powerful for the F-15C while the F/A-18E/F will be directed for strike missions more than AtA).
                        How can you know that? There is no stats.



                        I did, and I didn't find any, all just speculation and no hard facts.
                        Eh...if Sukhoi says that they are going to do it that way and Jane's has seen them do it that way, its a safe bet that they are going to do it that way.



                        Ah yes, they are. Also the same could be said about comparing the F-15 to a Su-37, yet no one ever says anything about that (F-15 = 4th, Su-37 = 4++)
                        Yeah, i know, you shouldn't compare F-15 and Su-37, SU-37 outclasses it.



                        No I mean everyone here.
                        Unless you can read people's minds i don't see how you can claim that.



                        Do you even listen to what I say? Plasma stealth can't be used unless Russia has learned to defy the laws of physics. And manueverability, like it or not, is significantly less important in this world with combat going to BVR most of the time.
                        But i already told you that the cloud idea was abandoned, i gave you a link and i can give you some more if you want.



                        That statement right there is denial.
                        Again, nice come back, grow up and atleast try to be original.



                        Oh really, because the number of cuss words you used in that is pretty a good counterargument against that. As for the LCD obsession you have, exactly how does that help? And how would you know it has up-to-date software? Do you fly it? Doubt so.
                        Do you fly them? The presense of LCD screens ensures that the pilot has more time to react since all the information he needs to know is compiled like he wants it and there he wants. Our software is up to date, SU-37 has a digital computer and fly-by-wire controls, don't believe me it will take you about 30 seconds to look up.



                        I ask again, how do you know?
                        I read.



                        Someone had a thread somewhere around here a while ago showing the F-22 could do that trick. I'll try to dig it out. And a stop cobra does little in combat. Bleeding speed is not very wise idea.
                        The thing that is so unique about the way SU-37 does it is that it can hold that position for 4-5 seconds allowing it to fire a missile, this means that it can quickly turn around, fire a missile the enemy who was behind it and then get back to its original position, no other plane on earth can do that.


                        And someone already provided you a source. If you want another one, I'll happily show you. Also no, they are far enough to be able to do diagonal.
                        Right, look at the damn pics, they are almost stuck together. And no they can't do a diagonal, i already gave you a link, what mroe do you need? Another link?

                        That is where you are wrong. All you need is common sense to see that the Su-37 doesn't even look very advanced,the F-15 ACTIVE does have 3d vectoring (don't even argue on that because it is dead), and if you didn't make up stuffy you would know that the AIM-120 can pull of 75 km while the AIM-120D can pull off 110 km.
                        What? God, you still haven't explained to me why you don't think that SU-37 is advanced, i prooved to you that F-15 does not have diagonal vector thrust capability and R-77 still has double the range of the standard AIM-120, so what the hell is your point? You are the one in dire need of common sense over here.


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                        • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                          A decade from know, the Su plane will be doing a move and then the Raptor pilot will be laughing as the Su gets hit by a missile and blows up.

                          So other than saying BS, you can't prove it can you? I thought so.
                          Can you proove what you are saying? Thought so.


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                          • Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                            A decade from know, the Su plane will be doing a move and then the Raptor pilot will be laughing as the Su gets hit by a missile and blows up.

                            So other than saying BS, you can't prove it can you? I thought so.
                            No burning kiddo.....it'll be your Raptor going down in flames

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                            • Here, you want to look at 3rd video down. How is the cabin of Mig-29SMT any less advanced then the western fighters? It gives information in exactly the same way allowing the pilot to react in exactly the same way, with fly by wire controlls that will do exactly the same thing the western fly by wire controlls will do

                              http://www.warfare.ru/?linkid=1600&catid=255&video=true

                              Here read this form here:

                              Its avionics equipment comprises an onboard multifunction jamproof forward-looking phased-array radar that can track up to 15 targets at a time, provide target designation, launch and guide several air-to-air missiles fitted with active, passive and IR homing heads, and an optronic fire control and surveillance system. In addition, the onboard avionics equipment is used for mapping, multichannel employment of guided weapons and low altitude flight with avoidance of ground features.

                              The information and control facilities in the pilot's cockpit cover four wide liquid-crystal displays of tactical and flight-navigation data, onboard system monitors and an operating conditions control panel. Information from individual systems may be presented on any display selected by the pilot. One more widescope indicator is installed on the windscreen. !!!The side short-travel control stick of the aircraft, avionics control handle and strain-gauging engine thrust controls, as well as tactical situation, flight conditions and systems monitors enable the pilot to effectively control the aircraft, systems and weapons.

                              http://www.sci.fi/~fta/Su-37-2.htm

                              and this from here:

                              -a new computer enabling ground mapping was added to the N001 radar

                              -an A737 GPS receiver was added to the navigational system

                              -a new MVK computer, enabling the use of TV-guided air-to-ground missiles and bombs as well as new AAMs, was added to the fire control system

                              -colour MFI-55 liquid crystal display (LCD) screens have replaced the former IPV cathode-ray tube screens.

                              During the second stage of planned modernisation the aircraft will obtain the full avionics of the MiG-29SMT model with Mil Std 1553B data bus and two or three large MFI-68 (6" x 8") displays in each cockpit.


                              .................................................. .........

                              The new aircraft was to incorporate all upgrades put into the Su-35 and Su-37, including the N011M phased-array radar, canards, digital fly-by-wire and thrust vectoring

                              http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/janes013.htm

                              and read all of this

                              http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-35/su-35.htm

                              Yes SU-37 uses modern computers, we know how to make computers, its not a big secret.
                              Last edited by Rusky; 15 Jan 06,, 19:40.


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                              • Okay, since now my head hearts from the mental equivalent of trying to herd kangaroos, I'm going to lock this thread and start a few more threads to separate out the component issues so we can tackle and focus on them independently. The first six that I can think of are the Korean War kill/loss ratios, stealth/counter-stealth, propulsion development to cover the thrust-vectoring debate, airframe development to cover manufacture and modifications, radar-specific topics, and avionics in general (sensors, communications, etc). Keep to topic or I WILL GO NUCLEAR!

                                I'm within a whisker of blanket banning people (and that means ANYONE) for three days to give them a breather to shore-up their research and have solid sources to cite. They say the pen is mightier than the sword and I'm tempted to test this theory in regards to the bases of a few skulls.

                                Have the decency and forthrightness to focus on the facts, rather than just skewing what you can dig up that only supports your argument. If you discover you were wrong in an area, have the strength and fortitude to fess up and post it.


                                This mod is henceworth going into full "Mills Lane" mode ala "Celebrity Deathmatch."
                                The black flag is raised: Ban them all... Let the Admin sort them out.

                                I know I'm going to have the last word... I have powers of deletion and lock.

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