US army vs. Russian army

[Terran empire]

cool, hey, what sniper rifle is that in your sig? btw, nice XM-8 on the side, you heard of the XM-29 or IOCW?

Dima his sig is the CheyTac M200 and the XM 29 was the OICW

[sniperdude411]

The F86 was easy to control, maneuver, etc. If you could fly a fighter down into the grand canyon, you could do alot with that plane. The Mig-15 was bulkier, and it wasn't as responsive in its turns as the F86 was. Yes, the Mig-15's guns were bigger, but it was very hard for the Mig to lock onto its target. Also, the F86's sights were better.

[Dima]

my mistake, OICW, just a slight mix=up

yea, you madea good point that i forgot to mentoin, the sights on the Sabrewere a lot better

but you did make a mistake, the MiG-15 isn't bulkier, also, in maneuverability terms, it depends at what altitude you're fighting at, if you're at a low altitude, then the F-86 pwns, but at a high altitude, the MiG-15 with its better acceleration, has pwns

i wish all aerial battles could be dogfights, that's the true way of knowing if a pilot is better than the other, not shooting some guy with a missile from 90km away, and he not even knowing that he's being targetted, i mean, what tactics are involved in that, yay, i downed you with a missile, that doesn't mean you're the better pilot, the technology was the deciding factor

anybody got any vids of dogfights from Korea, WW2 or Vietnam?

thanks

[TopHatter]

i wish all aerial battles could be dogfights, that's the true way of knowing if a pilot is better than the other, not shooting some guy with a missile from 90km away, and he not even knowing that he's being targetted, i mean, what tactics are involved in that, yay, i downed you with a missile, that doesn't mean you're the better pilot, the technology was the deciding factor

That's what simulators and video games are for.
But I do know what you mean, a test of skill on skill. That's why we have the past conflicts to look back upon.

However, in the real world, the rules are:

1. First guy to die, loses.
2. There are no other rules.

[Agent VE]

I almost forgot. I am sorry if someone else brought this up earlier, but here it is:

Cold War, Russia vs. Afghanistan! The U.S.A. helped Afghanistan by equiping them with our "old tech!" That was from 1978–1992! Our tech has grown better now, and Russia was at its peak power! 100,000 Russians could not take Afghanistan's rebels backed by the U.S.! And Afghanistan's government was helping Russia! Here is a link: http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?...&curtab=2040_1

[sniperdude411]

"anybody got any vids of dogfights from Korea, WW2 or Vietnam?

thanks"
Watch the History Channel. they've got plenty if dogfighting scenes. Or watch Top Gun; great movie.

[troung]

Cold War, Russia vs. Afghanistan! The U.S.A. helped Afghanistan by equiping them with our "old tech!" That was from 1978–1992! Our tech has grown better now, and Russia was at its peak power! 100,000 Russians could not take Afghanistan's rebels backed by the U.S.! And Afghanistan's government was helping Russia! Here is a link:

Wrong.

Very few American weapons were send there. Those were P-17 Enfields and FIM-92 Stingers.

The SMLEs were either totally local or came from Pakistan, India or Yugoslavia.

The G-3A2/G-3A3s came from Iran.

K-98/G-98s and ZB-26/30s came from Turkey.

Thier AK-47s were either captured, came off the black market or came from China or Egypt. Thier heavy machine guns were either captured or came from China or Egypt. The RPG-7s were either captured or came from China or Egypt. The 122mm rockets came from China and Egypt. Pretty much most of their WP weapons were either gotten off the black market, supplied by friendly governments or taken from the enemy.

The 60mm Type-63 mortars came from China and Pakistan. MILANs came from France. Blowpipes came from Britian. SA-7s came from China and off the black market from Poland.

We paid for Chinese, Turkish, Pakistani, Indian, Yugoslavian, British, French and Egyptian weapons to arm the guerillas. We tried to keep American weapons out of there.

And that is all the math of guerilla wars, it takes about 5 dollars (more actually) to fight the guerillas for every one dollar they get. You want to be paying for them rather then paying againist them.

[TopHatter]

Or watch Top Gun; great movie.

The flying scenes were pretty, no doubt about it. Especially the very beginning scenes when they were playing the Top Gun Anthem to the slow motion flight deck scenes, then segued into Kenny Loggin's Danger Zone. Absolutely gorgeous cinematography and editing.

However, the movie itself has to be, IMHO, the most militarily ridiculous movie ever made. (that's a whole other thread though :) )

[Bill]

"of all people, i thoguht at least you wouldn't go so far as to use names, i thought that you were the most objective, honest and one of the nicest guys here, wow, i was wrong"

Maybe you should ask yourself if perhaps you have something to do with my attitude towards you...

Seriously, how many people are you going to ignore, annoy, and agitate with your ridiculous posts and theories?

And when are you actually going to contribute something to this board but nonsense?

[sniperdude411]

"most objective, honest and one of the nicest guys here, wow, i was wrong"
Objective? Yes.
Honest? Definitely yes.
So no you weren't wrong.

[Dima]

"anybody got any vids of dogfights from Korea, WW2 or Vietnam?

thanks"
Watch the History Channel. they've got plenty if dogfighting scenes. Or watch Top Gun; great movie.

Top Gun, ehh? thanks for the advice, i'll try to rent the movie, is it old?

yea, good old history channel, always interesting

"Maybe you should ask yourself if perhaps you have something to do with my attitude towards you...

Seriously, how many people are you going to ignore, annoy, and agitate with your ridiculous posts and theories?

And when are you actually going to contribute something to this board but nonsense?"

nonesense, what are you talking about, what changed about you, really? like, you weren't like this before?

ignore, ignore who, i look over every post and see if there is something i should post about, so that's wrong, annoy, perhaps, to people with short fuses, i just like asking questions, nothing wrong with that, life is a learning process

agitiate, same thing as annoy

i don't know, occassionaly, i may say the stupid thing, so what, everyone makes mistakes, even you

so, are you saying that this:
"of all people, i thoguht at least you wouldn't go so far as to use names, i thought that you were the most objective, honest and one of the nicest guys here, wow, i was wrong


globalsecurity, i believe that not one of my links are from globalsecurity.org

i wasn't talking about the bad training of Russian piltos, i was talking about the inferior training of North Korean and Chinese pilots

the MiG-15 had a speed of 683 miles per hour, while the Sabre had a max speed of 622 miles per hour
(wrt your first link)

the ratio is defintely not 14:1,as a total of(based on American sttas) 792 Migs were shot down, in addition with only 78 F-86 Sabres

"Statements are often made that imply true US air combat losses were 2-3 times reported losses."

also, those "amazing" Russian pilots that you claim of, only received 200 flight hours a year, compared to Japanese which received 1,000 flight hours(WW2)

i'd say that this is my best link, you should read this one of all of them

http://www.korean-war.com/Archives/...2/msg00076.html

between the months of October-November of 1951, shot down 31 planes(12 F-86's, 4 F-80's, 2 F-51's, and 13 B-29's) while only having a total of 14 downed MiGs, giving them a 1:2.2 ratio in favour of the MiG pilots

the main reasons why the US won is because of superior training, especially in the last year of the war, and the non-existence of G-suits in Russian MiG's, that was huge

the North Korean, Chinese and Russian fighters were also outnumbered

Top Russian Aces:Kills:Comments

Nikolai V. Sutyagin:21
Yevgeni G. Pepelyayev:19
Lev Kirilovich Shchukin:17
Sergei M. Kramarenko:13
Ivan V. Suchkov:12
Stepan A. Bahayev:11
Konstantin N. Sheberstov:11
Grigorii U. Ohay:11
Mikhail S. Ponomaryev:11
Dmitri A. Samoylov:10
Pavel S. Milaushkin:10
Dmitri P. Oskin:9
Mikhail I. Mihin:9
Nikolai M. Zameskin:9
Aleksandr P. Smorchkov:8
Grigorii I. Pulov:8
Serafim P. Subbotin:8
Semen A. Fedorets:8
Vladimir I. Alfeyev:7
Fiodor A. Shebanov:6
Grigorii I. Ges:6
Anatoly M. Karelin:6
Arkadii S. Boitsov:6
Nikolai I. Ivanov:6
Stepan I. Naumenko:6
Boris S. Abakumov:5
Grigorii N. Berelidze:5

a total of 27 aces, these are only the aces who flew the MiG-15, only Russian aces

http://aeronautics.ru/nws002/migs_i...icts_part_i.htm

"During the three years of the Korean war, pilots of the 64th IAK (Istribityelno Aviatsionny Korpus, or Fighter Aviation Corps) flew 1,872 combat sorties and shot down 1,106 US-made aircraft, of which 650 were "Sabres."Some 335 MiGs were lost during the war."

http://aeronautics.ru/nws002/the_hunt_for_the_sabre.htm

Russians had a 3.3:1 kill ratio, also, the total number of American aces shooting down 5 or more planes was 40, while for the Russians, this was 51

well, i'm not even going to try to convince you that the 14:1 ratio is BS, and the 10:1, sure, 8:1 is reasonable against Chinese pilots, and 10:1 to Korean pilots, but not Russian pilots

have a nice day

link for aces is: http://www.acepilots.com/russian/rus_aces.html"

is ALL nonesense, please, don't let your emotions get to you, this is some good information, it's not all Bull, so please, keep it under control, just trying to get along here

[Bill]

"nonesense, what are you talking about, what changed about you, really? like, you weren't like this before?"

You happened to me. You've been testing my patience with your posts for weeks. You just finally managed to irk me to the point that i commented on it. I would've probably kept quiet if it was just me, but it's not. As is plainly evident, you don't have much of a fan base on this site.

Go figure...

[Dima]

well, no kidding aince i've been here like 2-3 months, and i don't have a job in this aerospace/land warfare system yet, frigg, take it easy, calm down, this forum is all about the learning

how did i irk you, i gave you a few links, responded to your post intelligently, what was the problem with that, i researched about the information, just took it from the sites

glad you seem to be calming down, don't want to get into an argument anymore, it's pointless you don't learn anything from that

keep it calm, take it easy, it's only a topic

[doctor_vals]

Half of the Russian army are serving by payment principle, if you didnt know, and more to come. Now the Russian gouverment tries to turn its all army into "Serv by payment principle". Stop with your old information, I know that the Russian army now have much more budget than before, like a year ago. The Russian duma only wants to raise the budget, because it is possible now, that the Russian market is growing, and its exports especially. That way the Russian budget raising. Didnt you hear about the new social reforms? Didnt you hear about the raise of the salary in the Russian army? I saw at the TV, that the generals asked if they want their salary will be increased, insteat they said no, they said that better raise the salary for the young non-officer soldiers. This is respect.
Where did you hear that most of the tanks are garbage? US army even dont have enough M1A2 for their own army. They are using the M1A1, that even a T-80 can beat. I am sure, that the incident that you saw will not repeat itself, these soldiers were probably punished and they learned.

After all, the western countries paid a critical role in the fall of the Berlin wall. It was disorder and chaos then. No one knew where he belongs. Again I say - DONT COME BACK TO 1992, WE ALL KNOW THAT THIS WAS THE WORST TIME FOR THE RUSSIAN ARMY.

What is the STUPID Question at all - "Which army is better?"
From one point of view -
-proffy against boys who is not going to be a soldiers at all ( they do everything to escape draft to the army);
-count how many tanks (real and modern have both sides;
- count aviation of both sides;
- count navy of both sides;
(You see - I didn't mention money budget or something like this)
So, you can say right now that US army will win war if any.... , but from another point of voew - Russians have more powerfull missiles, which cannot be stoped.
Are you going to this kind of war??????????

[sniperdude411]

Russians and their measly AKs... truly pitiful. Their man force is useless against the US.

I just wrote a research paper on precision warfare; the US has by far the best communications systems, tactics, and escpecially bomber force. Those Russian SAMS are useless, we can easily disable their ICBM launch pads. Not to mention sattellite power. We can send 1000 lb. bombs down chimneys, and read a newspaper headline from space. Our military is much better trained, better equipped (much, much better), and more readily deployable.