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Spetznaz video - knife training

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  • #16
    For those with not much experience of real (as opposed to pretend) fighting or h2h combat, I'll let you in on the number one rule of thumb: whatever the techniques you are using, unless it is repeatedly practiced in a non-prearranged manner against a fully resisting opponent, with full contact (or close to it) then it's worthless.

    Trust me, you can make ANYTHING look good against a pre-arranged single attack.

    So what do we have in the video? Some simple 2 person drills seen in many asian martial arts, and defenses against pre-arranged attacks. Much of the knife work is of the flowery filipino style.

    Guys - this stuff works in pretend movie fight scenes, that's it.

    The number of martial artists I have come across in my life who could really knife fight is very small (and seriously, exactly how often do you think knife-on-knife really happens?), and the number of people who could defend themselves against a knife with any reasonable probability of success is absolutely minute - and these are exceptionally gifted people who still spent many hours per week for many years training. If Spetznaz really waste such a huge percentage of their training on such a small percentage activity then they are a much less effective force than they otherwise could be.

    There are many martial arts around the world that can give a demonstration of unarmed combat which is more impressive than what was seen in the video.

    But 9 times out of 10 an exponent of that martial art would be beaten by an MMA fighter of equal experience. Why? Because they don't train against fully resisting opponents, with high levels of contact, whereas the MMA fighter does.

    In one camp we have karate, Japanese jiu-jitsu, kung fu, aikido, tae kwon do etc. In the other we have boxing, wrestling, kickboxing, judo, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, full contact karate, thai boxing, MMA etc.

    Based on the rule of thumb quoted above, you should be able to tell which camp produces competent fighters, and which does not.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by NWM View Post
      Based on the rule of thumb quoted above, you should be able to tell which camp produces competent fighters, and which does not.
      Easy. Neither.

      This is combat we're talking about. Not sport. Dress a guy in full body armour, put him in unfamiliar terrain in mud, sand, rocks, whatever and I will tell you who is going to win. The first guy who gets his primary weapon to discharge in the proper direction.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        You have less than 20 seconds to neutralize your opponent. Otherwise, his friends are going to jump you. Staying on the defensive is not going to get you under 20 seconds.

        That being said, it's a whole lot easier calling in artillery than to go HTH.
        Very good points from a purely hand to hand perspective. But from what I understand, many of the defensive moves taught to some of my buddies in the military were presented not purely with the intent to kill or incapacitate, but with the goal of creating space to draw their rifle or a sidearm (aka pulling an Indy ). Although I guess that could fall under the category of counter moves...
        "Draft beer, not people."

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          Easy. Neither.

          This is combat we're talking about. Not sport. Dress a guy in full body armour, put him in unfamiliar terrain in mud, sand, rocks, whatever and I will tell you who is going to win. The first guy who gets his primary weapon to discharge in the proper direction.
          Yes sir, you are correct of course. But I was talking about a somewhat narrower topic - where we suspend our disbelief for a moment and assume that the confrontations in the video may occur.

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          • #20
            I would rather spend my time honing my quick draw reflexes than on a knife fight or use moves that will give me time and space to use my gun or rifle. Practice rifle-butting a lot and quick drawing and I think you will be surprised how effective those will be.

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            • #21
              SEAL knife fighting. I believe this is from the Fulsom State school of martial arts. :)

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              • #22
                Mako is more interesting.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHGCJoTgsFI



                More in-depth
                Last edited by cyppok; 13 Mar 12,, 12:56.
                Originally from Sochi, Russia.

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                • #23
                  Since you are all in knife skills... at least this is useful in real life...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RJF...ture=endscreen

                  Master this first, then go Steven Seagal level
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                  • #24
                    God gave us the hand grenade for a reason.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dago View Post
                      Here is a SEAL hand to hand combat video



                      At the end of the video, there is alot of focus on footwork LOL.
                      He is teaching a slightly modified version of Jeet Kune Do. Heck, besides the initial "boxing stance" I don't see much difference from Jeet Kune Do.
                      And yes, footwork is a major portion of basic JKD. Nothing to lol at. If you can't coordinate your feet you're in trouble.

                      What I find curious is whether he is teaching his own version of unarmed combat, or are the SEALS really using JKD? I would lean towards the former, but I think this video intentionally gives the impression that it is the latter, for obvious reasons.
                      Last edited by chanjyj; 13 Mar 12,, 13:40.

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                      • #26
                        Somehow, I doubt any modified version of "The Way of the Intercepting Fist" is the best option of dealing with hand grenades.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          Somehow, I doubt any modified version of "The Way of the Intercepting Fist" is the best option of dealing with hand grenades.
                          I agree with you sir.

                          The only unarmed combat taught to us in the commando course are:-

                          - sentry silencing (which is the most important thing that a commando needs to be taught).
                          - disarming at guy with a knife.
                          - disarming a guy with a rifle.

                          Martial arts as such is used as a dog and pony show to impress people on how many bricks can be broken and the likes during demos.

                          Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                            Master this first, then go Steven Seagal level
                            Hehe, i was quite captivated by his knife fight with tommy lee in under siege 1, the blades were so small.

                            And then you realise the depth of this comment

                            Originally posted by NWM View Post
                            Trust me, you can make ANYTHING look good against a pre-arranged single attack.
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Mar 12,, 14:40.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                              Hehe, i was quite captivated by his knife fight with tommy lee in under siege 1, the blades were so small.

                              And then you realise the depth of this comment
                              I always loved how Indy solves the situation (S2 post), then of course you have the Col's solution with hand grenades.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                              • #30
                                Indy's move is one of those rare common sense/realistic moments from Hollywood

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