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Holy Cow! Airborne jumping don't seem like a good idea after all!

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  • Holy Cow! Airborne jumping don't seem like a good idea after all!

    Here's the video:

    YouTube - Bad Jump TRAINING = Bad jump EXITS

    Damn, somebody could get easily killed there. There were a couple instances where I could see the lines could get all tangled all up.

    Someone from the 82nd Airborne division told me that there not goes one month that somebody doesn't die. He said there is a reward if the Airborne Division goes one month without somebody getting killed. Is this true?

  • #2
    By the way, what are static line injuries?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
      Here's the video:

      YouTube - Bad Jump TRAINING = Bad jump EXITS

      Damn, somebody could get easily killed there. There were a couple instances where I could see the lines could get all tangled all up.

      Someone from the 82nd Airborne division told me that there not goes one month that somebody doesn't die. He said there is a reward if the Airborne Division goes one month without somebody getting killed. Is this true?
      The 82nd soldier is not referring to someone dying on a jump each month. The reference is probably to someone killing themselves through a DUI, and the reward is probably really a 3 day pass if no one in the division gets a DUI in a certain time period (this is not unique to the 82nd, but rather a positive incentive to try and get 18-22 year olds to not underage drink and to not drive after drinking - it's an age demographic issue).

      For mass parachute exits, you use a static line to deploy the chute to reduce injuries. That's the yellow nylon cord that is attached to the parachute and is 15 feet long. The video you see was produced immediately following a rash of 3-4 incidents where weak exits resulted in the static line being cut by the jump ramp (think of the forces on the static line when it is stressed by being taut and twisting - how much force do you have to use on a piece of string that is not taut vs. when it is fully taut to cut it?). Two US soldiers were killed because no static line = no main parachute deployment, and they didn't activate their reserve parachutes in time. One of the soldiers was from my battalion.

      As far as static line injuries go, it's obviously bad if you exit the aircraft and the line is wrapped around your arm - when it goes taut, you can count on it ripping your bicep from your bone, which I hear is quite painful. With proper technique, this is 100% avoidable. Another potential static line related injury is when you have a weak exit and loose equipment (e.g., a rucksack with a mortar baseplate), and the static line wraps around the baseplate/rucksack. This prevents the main chute from deploying, and the jumper is now being towed by the plane, with turbulence causing the jumper to bang against the bottom of the aircraft. Once again, bad news. There is a way to retrieve the jumper inside the aircraft, but it takes time, meaning the jumper will bang against the aircraft in the interim. In my three years in my airborne battalion, this happened once; fortunately, the rucksack ended up being between the jumper and the aircraft, and so the jumper was frightened but not injured.
      "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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      • #4
        Accelerated Free Fall

        Definitely a bad exit, especially the guy who lost his helmet. Luckily he hadn't reached terminal velocity otherwise that would have hurt.

        I had decided to go back into sky diving after a ten year hiatus and was doing an AFF program to requalify. Right as I was pulling my D ring some idiot doing relative work slid right underneath me and opened his chute! I rolled out of the way just in time to have the guy go by me within an arms reach. This put me in a head down, sideways attitude instead of the proscribed stable, arched position recommended for a good deployment. When my chute opened it was with a huge sideways jerk that liked to pull my teeth out. I looked up and had a streamer with a rats nest right above my head. First checking my altimeter I reached up and pulled on the closest line, the knot came undone and the slider to came down with a zzzzoooohp!

        At this point I checked the chute and realized I had blown out three out of the seven panels. Quickly doing the math (divide total area by seven minus three times), I figured I still had about three quarters of the area my reserve would (hopefully) be. This combined with the fact that the last time I checked my altimeter I was at 1100 feet made me decide I was going to ride this one down. I figured although I might have a hard landing at least this chute was open. That sure beat the hell out of playing, "What's behind door number two?", and going for my reserve!

        That was my AFF level three jump (out of five). I passed. :))
        Last edited by sappersgt; 09 Nov 07,, 19:43.
        Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo
        (Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by sappersgt View Post
          Definitely a bad exit, especially the guy who lost his helmet. Luckily he hadn't reached terminal velocity otherwise that would have hurt.

          I had decided to go back into sky diving after a ten year hiatus and was doing an AFF program to requalify. Right as I was pulling my D ring some idiot doing relative work slid right underneath me and opened his chute! I rolled out of the way just in time to have the guy go by me within an arms reach. This put me in a head down, sideways attitude instead of the proscribed stable, arched position recommended for a good deployment. When my chute opened it was with a huge sideways jerk that liked to pull my teeth out. I looked up and had a streamer with a rats nest right above my head. First checking my altimeter I reached up and pulled on the closest line, the knot came undone and the slider to came down with a zzzzoooohp!

          At this point I checked the chute and realized I had blown out three out of the seven panels. Quickly doing the math (divide total area by seven minus three times), I figured I still had about three quarters of the area my reserve would (hopefully) be. This combined with the fact that the last time I checked my altimeter I was at 1100 feet made me decide I was going to ride this one down. I figured although I might have a hard landing at least this chute was open. That sure beat the hell out of playing, "What's behind door number two?", and going for my reserve!

          That was my AFF level three jump (out of five). I passed. :))
          I belong to the tribe that believes exiting a serviceable aircraft to be an abomination and anything but a sport.
          Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by glyn View Post
            I belong to the tribe that believes exiting a serviceable aircraft to be an abomination and anything but a sport.
            I agree. Though my father was in the 82nd (Op Mrkt Grdn) I never could see the sense in jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.
            Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
              I agree. Though my father was in the 82nd (Op Mrkt Grdn) I never could see the sense in jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.
              uhm I am no expert, but did they not mostly land in gliders back then?

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              • #8
                So Shek, do the men of the mortar platoon jump with all of their equipment attached to themselves? I always thought (assumed, I guess), that those parts were too heavy for that.
                In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
                The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

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                • #9
                  tarek morgen;

                  uhm I am no expert, but did they not mostly land in gliders back then?
                  No. It was common for transports with airborne troops to tow gliders in, and when they came over the drop zone, to let the gliders glide in, and the transports would then unload their paratroops.
                  "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
                  - Thomas Jefferson

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
                    So Shek, do the men of the mortar platoon jump with all of their equipment attached to themselves? I always thought (assumed, I guess), that those parts were too heavy for that.
                    You can jump the 60mm and 81mm mortar systems spread out across your gun squad. The 81mm mortar is much bulkier, and so it is safer to use a door bundle for the system and then have the gun squad jump rounds. This allows you to have the gun system complete (provided you can find it!) and have extra rounds. Thus, you never see folks jumping the 81mm mortar system on person.
                    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
                      uhm I am no expert, but did they not mostly land in gliders back then?
                      Plenty of both actually. Although as I understand it, the gliderborne troops weren't paid as much as the parachute troops...which was just plain asinine.

                      Here's the full Allied (and German) ORBAT for Operation Market-Garden


                      Paratroopers descending on Holland during the "Market" or airborne phase of the operation
                      Attached Files
                      “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
                      ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by glyn View Post
                        I belong to the tribe that believes exiting a serviceable aircraft to be an abomination and anything but a sport.
                        A common sentiment amongst pilots.;)

                        Once when having dinner with a former naval aviator friend of mine his wife asked why he didn't take a parachute with him while flying his private plane. I told her it would be a waste of time because he would wait until it was too late to use it. He agreed and said he'd probably end up flying it into the ground!

                        by Shek
                        You can jump the 60mm and 81mm mortar systems spread out across your gun squad. The 81mm mortar is much bulkier, and so it is safer to use a door bundle for the system and then have the gun squad jump rounds. This allows you to have the gun system complete (provided you can find it!) and have extra rounds. Thus, you never see folks jumping the 81mm mortar system on person.
                        We did a single combat jump with the tube in a separate bundle. Although successful my CO considered that not a satisfactory solution. We didn't do it that way again. Every man in the company jumped with two mortar rounds, 200 rds for the mg and two other pieces of ordinance (you had a choice) in addition to his own gear.
                        Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo
                        (Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's)

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                        • #13
                          I wanted to try sky diving and bungee jumping when I was younger. For some odd reason that urge has disappeared over the last decade. Now I worry about boarding a jetliner...
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                            Plenty of both actually. Although as I understand it, the gliderborne troops weren't paid as much as the parachute troops...which was just plain asinine.

                            Here's the full Allied (and German) ORBAT for Operation Market-Garden


                            Paratroopers descending on Holland during the "Market" or airborne phase of the operation
                            Thanks, I was under the (wrong) impression than jumping was rather the exception and landing with gliders being the norm since they would (to the best of my understanding) be able to carry along more and heavier weapon, ammo etc, it is more safe/sneaky, since the gliders make the alst part on their own without the noisy transporters, and you dont have thousands of parachuts in the sky, and quite simply I guess the men in the glider require less training than those who jump out of the planes (or at least can spend more time training other things).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Shek View Post
                              You can jump the 60mm and 81mm mortar systems spread out across your gun squad. The 81mm mortar is much bulkier, and so it is safer to use a door bundle for the system and then have the gun squad jump rounds. This allows you to have the gun system complete (provided you can find it!) and have extra rounds. Thus, you never see folks jumping the 81mm mortar system on person.
                              Yeah I was about to say, either way it sounds like it sucks. Either you have a hard time finding the thing (I'm imagining it being stuck on a roof of a building or in some tree brances), or you have to jump with all your kit AND a bunch of extra weight. Is there an alternative landing technique for having that much weight on you?
                              In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
                              The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

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