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  • Artesh
    replied
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    Most people who have been to Iran - including Iranians - that I know would spit at that highlighted part. Although this may be a generational thing, like those protests alse seem to be. The Iranians that I know mostly fled from 1- Reza Pahlavi's CIA-installed and -sponsored regime during the 60s and 70s as adults. 2- The people who seem to be out on the streets now in Iran mostly weren't even born in '79.
    1- Reza Shah ??? They are all liars. Even they don`t know history of their own Country!!! He Was dead!!! Last King of Iran, Was his Son, Mohammad Reza.
    2- Yes. That`s Right. They Are new Generation.

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  • Artesh
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    "Death to Khamenei"

    They're upset about something
    Not Something, Almost everything!!!

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  • kato
    replied
    Most I know who emigrated from Iran in the 70s did not return later on and never planned to; however the actual reason for that was that those were teenagers in the 70s who were pretty much dodging the draft under the Shah, and were definitely so not going back in the 80s while the war with Iraq was going on. Not when there were another 15,000 Iranian teens being smuggled out of the country and into Germany for the sole reason of avoiding to have to serve in that war - and those 15,000 kids represented about one third of all Iranians fleeing Iran for Germany during that time. Rather notably the overall immigration numbers of Iranians dropped off extremely after the war ended (and, frankly, after the regime had already cracked down on Shah supporters in Iran in the mid-80s).

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by xerxes View Post
    i don't think they were many Iranian emigres in the 50s in the US
    No there weren't i was referring to some one i knew in the 90s that came over to the UK in the 80s IIANM

    What i'd have aid to him today is Mosadegh tried to nationalise too soon. The Arabs nationalised in the mid 70s. Some one here even mentioned it had nothing to do with nationalisation but a fear of the Tudeh party which was left leaning. So Iran is a domino waiting to fall

    It was just a 'revolution', before it became an 'islamic revolution' when Saddam egged by xxx decided to invade. The first few years of war settle the balance of power in favour of the mullahs and put the country on a different trajectory.
    We can thank Saddam and his short sighted backers for that.
    Iran was taking over, spreading revolution. Saddam was willing. It's funny how things turned out. Saddam is gone. Iran has won.

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  • xerxes
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    I've heard the same thing from Iraninan emigres too, how they resented the overthrow of mosadegh bla bla. They say that living abroad.
    i don't think they were many Iranian emigres in the 50s in the US


    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    This so called revolution bubbled up within six months and took over the place. Maybe it could have been prevented.
    It was just a 'revolution', before it became an 'islamic revolution' when Saddam egged by xxx decided to invade. The first few years of war settle the balance of power in favour of the mullahs and put the country on a different trajectory.
    We can thank Saddam and his short sighted backers for that.
    Last edited by xerxes; 12 Mar 18,, 03:41.

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  • xerxes
    replied
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
    How many of them have returned to Iran to live permanently since the Revolution? Did they return to help their nation as it fought off invasion? Have they lent their skills as it battles sanctions or isolation? Just to be clear, I don't mean visiting Iran as German citizens, but moving themselves & especially their families back to Iran to live under the regime as Iranians?

    I'd love to see figures for Iranians who fled to the West returning to this 'better' Iran. I'm betting the numbers were low, especially after it became clear that the repression of the Shah was to be replaced by an even more repressive theocracy. We have plenty of refugees from that regime in Australia.

    There can be little doubt that the Iranian Revolution was a step backwards for the region in so many ways.

    During the revolution many came back (ex see mostafa chamran; apparently he was finishing/or finished his PhD in plasma physics in Berkeley).
    Even Iran's current foreign minister was in US during the revolution. Don't believe he came back, but he became convert. The revolutionary ideas and defence of homeland were powerful magnate I guess but that trend declined rather quickly. But overall in the past 40 years, there has been a net exodus. Of course, there have been the occasional folks who went back more recently (past 15 years) for business opportunities and to live there, but that is minor.
    Last edited by xerxes; 12 Mar 18,, 03:47.

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  • Ironduke
    replied
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
    How many of them have returned to Iran to live permanently since the Revolution? Did they return to help their nation as it fought off invasion? Have they lent their skills as it battles sanctions or isolation? Just to be clear, I don't mean visiting Iran as German citizens, but moving themselves & especially their families back to Iran to live under the regime as Iranians?

    I'd love to see figures for Iranians who fled to the West returning to this 'better' Iran. I'm betting the numbers were low, especially after it became clear that the repression of the Shah was to be replaced by an even more repressive theocracy. We have plenty of refugees from that regime in Australia.

    There can be little doubt that the Iranian Revolution was a step backwards for the region in so many ways.
    I asked an Iranian guy some years back, who was worse, the Shah or the Ayatollahs?

    His answer: "Shah was bad. But now there are a thousand little shahs."

    He was a college student studying in the US in 1979, called his parents during the revolution, and he said his parents told him: "Don't come back. They'll kill you."

    I think there were some Iranians that went back. Off-hand I recall reading that a number of fighter pilots did, in addition to those released from the prisons back to the IrAF.

    Originally posted by kato View Post
    Or the ones across the waters, where to the south you've got a country that want to exterminate them on principle over trivial matters from 1,340 years ago regardless who is in power?
    That might be the Salafist jihadi mindset, but the Saudi royal family was concerned with a revolutionary wave that could topple their monarchy. They wanted and continue to want stability above all, for the purpose, of course, to keep pumping that oil and raking in billions of dollars.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 05 Mar 18,, 17:36.

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  • citanon
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    Kissinger said Iran needs to decide whether its wants to be a cause or a country

    Forty years later where and what is Iran ?
    Iran answered: yes.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Kissinger said Iran needs to decide whether its wants to be a cause or a country

    Forty years later where and what is Iran ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    Which ones - the ones that attacked them outright once someone gave them the money (Iraq), the ones that treat them normally without any fuss and cooperate with them (Pakistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia), the one who is their virtual frontier zone colony (Afghanistan)? Or the ones across the waters, where to the south you've got a country that want to exterminate them on principle over trivial matters from 1,340 years ago regardless who is in power?

    I mean, this isn't quite comparable to say some random guy in the US in the 1950s proclaiming he wants the Romanovs back in power in the Soviet Union.
    As far as i'm concerned losing Iran was a major loss. Ended up with Egypt as a consolation prize.

    This so called revolution bubbled up within six months and took over the place. Maybe it could have been prevented. Thing is the shah was so far past gone at that point it was too late.

    I've heard the same thing from Iraninan emigres too, how they resented the overthrow of mosadegh bla bla. They say that living abroad. Didn't know enough at the time to challenge them
    Last edited by Double Edge; 03 Jan 18,, 04:03.

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  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    Most people who have been to Iran - including Iranians - that I know would spit at that highlighted part. Although this may be a generational thing, like those protests alse seem to be. The Iranians that I know mostly fled from Reza Pahlavi's CIA-installed and -sponsored regime during the 60s and 70s as adults. The people who seem to be out on the streets now in Iran mostly weren't even born in '79.
    How many of them have returned to Iran to live permanently since the Revolution? Did they return to help their nation as it fought off invasion? Have they lent their skills as it battles sanctions or isolation? Just to be clear, I don't mean visiting Iran as German citizens, but moving themselves & especially their families back to Iran to live under the regime as Iranians?

    I'd love to see figures for Iranians who fled to the West returning to this 'better' Iran. I'm betting the numbers were low, especially after it became clear that the repression of the Shah was to be replaced by an even more repressive theocracy. We have plenty of refugees from that regime in Australia.

    There can be little doubt that the Iranian Revolution was a step backwards for the region in so many ways.

    Leave a comment:


  • kato
    replied
    Which ones - the ones that attacked them outright once someone gave them the money (Iraq), the ones that treat them normally without any fuss and cooperate with them (Pakistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia), the one who is their virtual frontier zone colony (Afghanistan)? Or the ones across the waters, where to the south you've got a country that want to exterminate them on principle over trivial matters from 1,340 years ago regardless who is in power?

    I mean, this isn't quite comparable to say some random guy in the US in the 1950s proclaiming he wants the Romanovs back in power in the Soviet Union.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    Most people who have been to Iran - including Iranians - that I know would spit at that highlighted part. Although this may be a generational thing, like those protests alse seem to be. The Iranians that I know mostly fled from Reza Pahlavi's CIA-installed and -sponsored regime during the 60s and 70s as adults. The people who seem to be out on the streets now in Iran mostly weren't even born in '79.
    Iranians maybe, but what about their neighbours ?

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  • kato
    replied
    That puts the focus back on 1979 – a year that so fundamentally transformed the Middle East and the world for the worse.
    Most people who have been to Iran - including Iranians - that I know would spit at that highlighted part. Although this may be a generational thing, like those protests alse seem to be. The Iranians that I know mostly fled from Reza Pahlavi's CIA-installed and -sponsored regime during the 60s and 70s as adults. The people who seem to be out on the streets now in Iran mostly weren't even born in '79.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Now i understand why Trump in one of his tweets said 'great people of Iran'

    Leave a comment:

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