Iran Election June 09

[Tronic]

*Agreed Tronic, but for the very few times we brought this world to that edge it was never based upon religion or anything to do with inillation of another country because of their ethnic backgrounds. It was done to protect the people from nuclear arms pointed at them from very few miles from shore.

IMO, Irans regime would never even consider complete intelligent talks before reaching for that extreme and drumming up support by citing a very bent version of religion to whip the people into frenzy. I know it sounds extreme but these individuals can NEVER get their hands on a weapon of such power or the civilized world as we know it will deteriorate very rapidly and before our eyes.

Yes, a regime change is a must for Iran to go nuclear. The government at the helm must be a people sanctioned government.

The threat to world peace has been explained over and over again.

You see, it is surprising that someone as obviously informed as yourself deliberately "forgets" the implications of a Islamic Republic with nukes:

- vicious terrorist thugs emboldened under a nuclear umbrella

- a nuke race in the Middle East

Both of those points already have been in play the day Pakistan went nuclear.

Now, if someone is going to tell me that nuclear proliferation in the Middle East is probably going to be OK, then, I start to get impatient; even outraged about the frivolity of such proposition.

That has also been started, by Israel.

[Dreadnought]

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran said the gunman who killed Neda Agha-Soltan may have mistaken her for the sister of an Iranian "terrorist," the Islamic Republic News Agency reported Wednesday.

In death, Neda Agha-Soltan has emerged as a powerful symbol of opposition to the Iranian government.

Iran blamed the death of the woman known to the world simply as Neda squarely on "those groups who want to create division in the nation," saying they planned the woman's killing "to accuse the Islamic republic of ruthlessly dealing with the opposition," according to IRNA, Iran's state-run news agency.

The report said the investigation into her death is ongoing, "but according to the evidence so far, it could be said that she was killed by mistake. The marksmen had mistaken her for the sister of one of the Monafeghin who had been executed in the province of Mazandaran some time ago."

Monafeghin refers to the People's Mujahedin Organization of Iran, or PMOI, which promotes a secular, Marxist government for Iran, and has waged a violent campaign against the fundamentalist Islamic regime, including bombings that killed politicians, judges and Cabinet members.

Also known as Mujahedin-e-Khalq, the group initially was formed to oppose the Shah of Iran but fell out of favor with the Islamic Revolution of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini after 1979.

The European Union removed the group from its list of terrorist organizations this year, prompting outrage from Tehran. The Iranian Foreign Ministry accused the European Union of "making friends and cooperating with terrorists" by removing the group from its list.

Neda, 26, rose to prominence within hours after a crudely shot video documenting her final moments was uploaded to the Web. Shortly after she died Saturday from a single gunshot wound to the chest, she emerged as a powerful symbol of opposition to the Iranian government. See images of Neda and the impact of her death »

"It's heartbreaking," President Obama said Tuesday, referring to the video of Neda, which means "divine calling" in Farsi.

"And I think anyone who sees it knows there's something fundamentally unjust about it."

The Iranian government has sought to minimize the impact of her death.

RNA reported Wednesday that the killer, or killers, may have "thought that they were targeting one of the government opposition people and that is why they immediately distributed the video of the aftermath of the killing through the official and unofficial media in order to reach their murderous objectives against the Iranian government and revolution."


Yeah, If the good people of Iran can believe this trobe of lies then they deserve this idiot as their leader. Its a bit late to explain away the girls death while the outside world watched you treat your own people like animals in the street.

I guess they also targeted the other sixteen people that were murdered in the streets by your own Basij and police forces because they were defrauded. Liar, Liar, Nuclear Plant and your world on fire!:P

[Dreadnought]

Personally, Getting caught on video beating protesters could not have happened to a better bunch of dickheads. Glad the world got a glimpse into how you treat and respect the people you are "supposed" to serve as President. Dickhead!:P

[Bigfella]

I'm going to watch football now.

For the time being I'll just say that is not a bad idea, but I'm thinking the best title would be:

"Israel and the moral and intellectual bankruptcy in the West (including Haaretz)"

Call it whatever the hell you like, just do it.

[Castellano]

Call it whatever the hell you like, just do it.

I'll probably do it.

But it won't spare you from my critique when I see you play your frivolous moral equivalence games.

[Merlin]

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- ...Neda, 26, rose to prominence within hours after a crudely shot video documenting her final moments was uploaded to the Web. Shortly after she died Saturday from a single gunshot wound to the chest, she emerged as a powerful symbol of opposition to the Iranian government. See images of Neda and the impact of her death » ....

There are at least 17 deaths. Imagine the emotive power of the images if only the death of some of the others were also caught on camera.

[Bigfella]

I'll probably do it.

But it won't spare you from my critique when I see you play your frivolous moral equivalence games.

I'm not asking to be spared. I'm not even asking for you to be consistent by holding others to the same standard (you certainly haven't so far). All I'm asking is that rather than put us all through yet one more version of the AIPAC-aproved history of Israel you put it in another thread & simply link to it. That way you can write page after page of critique without sending thread after thread off course.

[Merlin]

The Globe & Mail thinks the opposition looks like petering out.

Iran's opposition looks like it's petering out

25 June [GlobeMail] It's beginning to look like the end of the line for the Mousavi opposition in Iran.

From the million-plus demonstrators that choked Tehran's streets a week ago, Tuesday saw only a handful of protesters brave enough to incur the wrath of police and paramilitary forces.

This followed two days in which protest numbers dropped off considerably.

What seems to have turned the tide was the strict warning issued Friday by Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, followed Saturday by the violent response meted out to the 3,000 or so people who turned up to test the regime – at least 10 were killed, hundreds injured and scores arrested.

Now, it is the notorious Revolutionary Guard that says it will deal with any further protests, ratcheting up the threats and claiming the revolutionary high ground.

Tuesday was to have been a day of protest. Mir-Hossein Mousavi the challenger to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had defiantly called for mass rallies, but none transpired.

The Supreme Leader did give the Guardian Council five more days to investigate complaints of manipulating the vote in the June 12 presidential election that saw Mr. Ahmadinejad awarded 63 per cent of the vote, while Mr. Mousavi was said to have received 34 per cent.

But not even this extension – intended to pacify critics of the process – nor U.S. President Barack Obama's comments Tuesday that the world was “bearing witness” to how Iran was dealing with “the peaceful pursuit of justice,” is likely to turn back the tide. ...

[Dreadnought]

Turn back the tide of what, a dictatorship backed by a theocracy that cheats its people of their rights and free elections? Yeah, a country I would want to live in.....NOT!

The world will now laugh at any comments the Assahola or A-jad make. They certainly wont respect this poor excuse for a governemnt.

[Bigfella]

Turn back the tide of what, a dictatorship backed by a theocracy that cheats its people of their rights and free elections? Yeah, a country I would want to live in.....NOT!

The world will now laugh at any comments the Assahola or A-jad make. They certainly wont respect this poor excuse for a governemnt.

The reckoning will come Dread, but I don't think it will be today.

There are only two ways a government survives this sort of thing in the long term - the Burma option of the Beijing option.

The first will only work via a radical transformation of Iran that I don't think this lot can carry out (even if they want to - which I doubt). The second will only work through extremely deft & perceptive change & reform - which I suspect is a lot harder for a theocracy than it was for the CCP.

This lot are so stupid they have put life bans on members of the national football team. Angering people who already don't like you is never as dangerous as angering people who do. Banning footballers will do just that.

It may take years for this to play out, but I think we have seen the beginning of the end of the Islamic Republic in its current form. The smartest thing we can do is not interfere. Iranians can & must do things themselves. We can lend our voices and perhaps a few more practical things here or there, but we can never let anything outside Iran itself become the story.

[Dreadnought]

"It may take years for this to play out, but I think we have seen the beginning of the end of the Islamic Republic in its current form. The smartest thing we can do is not interfere. Iranians can & must do things themselves. We can lend our voices and perhaps a few more practical things here or there, but we can never let anything outside Iran itself become the story."

*Agreed BigFella, But we also all know that every failure this poor excuse of a government has they will point the finger at the West. "IT MUST BE THE WEST'S FAULT" to remove blame from their pathetic selves for failed policies, isolation for the international community, and denial of the peoples rights.

I hope Obama is smart enough to call him out on such subjects each and every time he attempts it and especially I hope many world leaders calls this man out at the U.N. to explain the voter fraud and the denial of the Iranian peoples rights to free and transparent elections. It may fall upon deaf ears with their ignorance but it should still have light cast upon it at the U.N. level so the world may hear. They should not let this go until it causes his slide and the Assahola's slide from power.

[Merlin]

A number of interesting points in this BBC report.

Iran's Mousavi defies crackdown

25 June [BBC] Iran protest leader Mir Hossein Mousavi says he holds those behind alleged "rigged" elections responsible for bloodshed during recent protests.

In a defiant statement on his website, he called for future protests to be in a way which would not "create tension." He complained of "complete" restrictions on his access to people and a crackdown on his media group.

A BBC correspondent in Tehran says the statement is a direct challenge to Iran Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei.

In another development on Thursday, Iranian state media said that eight members of the pro-government Basij militia had been killed and dozens more wounded in the protests.

The eight deaths were in addition to 17 other people whose deaths have already been reported. The figures cannot be verified due to severe reporting restrictions inside Iran.

Separately, nearly two thirds of MPs appear to have stayed away from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's election victory party.

All 290 MPs were invited to attend the party, Iran's press reports, but only 105 turned up. ....

One of those who reportedly failed to turn up was Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani, a high-profile figure who shares some of Mr Ahmadinejad's hardline views but has been critical of some aspects of the government's handling of the protests.

About 50 MPs are reformist and would not have been expected to attend the victory party. ...

[Dreadnought]

(CNN) -- An event to remember the victims of Iran's post-election protests has been postponed Thursday, a day after security forces crushed a planned demonstration.

Riot police patrol a Tehran street earlier this week. Security forces are ever-present, one Iranian says.

The postponement was announced on the Web site of presidential candidate Mehdi Karrubi's party Wednesday evening.

"Thursday's ceremony was meant to commemorate the 'the martyrs of the republic and freedom,' " the statement on the party site said.

The event was postponed for a week, but the site did not offer an alternate date.

Also Thursday, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the declared winner in the disputed June 12 election, told President Obama to stop "interfering" in Iran's affairs, the semi-official Fars news agency reported.

"The question is, do you want to use this kind of literature to address Iran and create a dialogue?" Ahmadinejad said. "If this is your position, then there is nothing to talk about."

Obama is walking a diplomatic tightrope in finding the right response to the crisis. Since taking office, the U.S. leader has sought rapprochement with Iran, but this week he said he was "appalled and outraged" by the post-election violence.

U.S. rescinds July Fourth invitation to Iranians
Obama sent letter to Iran leader, sources say
In Depth: Iran election fallout

The White House said Wednesday that it was rescinding invitations to Iranian diplomats overseas for Independence Day celebrations.

Seventeen people have died in clashes with government forces since the protests began more than a week ago, according to official figures.

CNN has received unconfirmed reports of as many as 150 deaths related to a popular uprising on Saturday alone.

The mood in Tehran on Thursday was "defiant but nervous," said one resident, whom CNN is not identifying for safety reasons.

Life was returning to routine, "but not like before the election," the resident wrote. Security forces were ever-present, he said. And after days of protest, the city was calmer.

The number of demonstrators venturing into Tehran's streets had fallen since Sunday, said CNN's Reza Sayah, who returned Wednesday to the U.S. from Iran.

Sayah said exhaustion from consecutive days of protest may have combined with fear of government reprisals.

CNN has received numerous accounts of nighttime roundups of opposition activists and international journalists by government forces.

After opposition leader Mir Hossein Moussavi met with university teachers Wednesday, police arrested 70 attendees and took them to an undisclosed location, his Web site said. CNN hasn't been able to verify the site's authenticity.

The key to what happens next depends on what role Moussavi plays, Sayah said. Moussavi's supporters say he was robbed of a victory and are demanding a fresh election. The official results gave Ahmadinejad a landslide win.

Meanwhile, Iran's ambassador to Mexico defended his country's actions in an interview Wednesday with CNN en Español. Ambassador Mohammad Hassan Ghadiri said there are acceptable ways of addressing electoral fraud, if any had occurred.

"But they go out on the street, they attack buses, they attack banks; that affects the security of the country," Ghadiri said.

"The minority can't impose their opinion on the majority. They can't impose a dictatorship, saying that the majority is not going to govern."

In the face of protests, authorities offered a partial recount. The Iranian Interior Ministry said Wednesday that it conducted a recount of some ballot boxes in the presence of another defeated candidate's representatives -- and found no discrepancies. Watch more on the protests »

Iran's government has restricted media access in the country, making it difficult to ascertain exact figures.

On Wednesday afternoon, security forces used overwhelming force to crack down on protesters who had flocked to Baharestan Square near the parliament building in Tehran, according to more than a half-dozen witnesses.

Police charged at the gathering -- clubbing demonstrators with batons, beating women and old men, and firing weapons into the air to disperse them, witnesses said. Watch what Iranian television is reporting »

"They were waiting for us," one witness said. "They all have guns and riot uniforms. It was like a mouse trap."

The melee extended beyond the square, one woman said.

"They emptied buses that were taking people there and let the private cars go on ... and then, all of a sudden, some 500 people with clubs of wood, they came out of the Hedayat Mosque, and they poured into the streets and they started beating everyone," she said.

Government-run Press TV gave a starkly different account, saying about 200 protesters had gathered in front of the parliament and 50 others in a nearby square. All were dispersed by a heavy police presence, it said.

Someone who answered the phone at the nearby Bank of Melli hospital said no one had been admitted as a result of any clashes.

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has endorsed the election results, reiterated Wednesday that the government "will never give in to coercive demands with regards to Iran's presidential elections," Press TV said.

Also Wednesday, Iranian authorities said they had arrested foreign nationals, some with British passports, in connection with the country's post-election unrest. Watch more on the diplomatic standoff »

The British Foreign Office said it was looking into the claims. It said it knew that one of the arrested nationals was Washington Times reporter Jason Fowden, who also goes by the name Iason Athanasiadis.

The Iranian government has long blamed other countries, especially Britain, for meddling in its affairs but has offered no proof.

Iran also said that Neda Agha-Soltan, 26, whose videotaped death has made her a face of the protests, might have been shot by mistake.


The state-run Islamic Republic News Agency said snipers may have mistaken her for the sister of a Monafeghin.

Monafeghin refers to the People's Mujahedin Organization of Iran, which promotes a Marxist government and has waged a campaign against the fundamentalist Islamic regime.

*Yep, God forbid anybody voice opinion against you and Assahola not giving your people free uncorrupted elections and beating them in the streets when they get angry over being cheated. Piece of shit! We don't need dialogue with you but in Obamas defense its time the rules of the game changed as far as Iran's interference in Iraq and other places.!:P

What makes me laugh is that they make claims of the West interfering and offer zero proof but we have proof out the wazoo of Iran interfering in Iraq.

[JAD_333]

There are only two ways a government survives this sort of thing in the long term - the Burma option of the Beijing option.

Another is the Zimbabwe option, power sharing. I can shoot that one out of the water as easily as you can. So, save your ammo.

The China option is more plausible. But it won't be easy in a country where religious passions run high. It seems to me, however, that the government's best course is to make changes that will, at least, partially satisfy the dissidents. Throw an angry dog a bone and he'll settle down to chew.

This will be tricky because they don't want to appear to be caving in to the dissentents. Here one possible scenario:

First, replace supreme ruler, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (ostensibly on account of ill health). Of course, people will speculate that he got the axe because his hair-trigger announcement of A-Jad's victory before the Guardian Council, which is alone empowered to certify the winner, was illegal. It was the prime cause of the sudden, impromptu demonstrations. Stupid mistake.

The new man can uphold A-jad's victory simply by saying it was certified by the Guardian Council and that in the future the law will be followed. That would partially satisfy the dissidents.

The next step would be to call on everyone in the nation to honor the Islamic principle of forgiveness. Pragmatically, carrying out harsh punishments on the average people who protested would be a mistake. It would only stoke their anger and drive it below the surface where it could erupt again. The government has to engage the middle class, not alienate it.

Forgiveness has to be handled delicately; forgiving people who don't think they did anything wrong makes them angrier. It has to be universal for all acts on all sides following the election, which can be done if no specifics are mentioned.

The new supreme ruler could also call for election reforms that leave no doubt as to who the winner is next time. They could debate these ad infinitum, but that is better than maintaining that no change is needed.

They don't have years to heal the rift that's growing wider in their society. The fact is, the middle class is growing and is essential to the nation. They have to move quickly to regain the moral highground.

[beka]

It's apparently not just some crazy protesters though that have issues with this election. The majority of the members of Iranian parliment refused to go to a dinner honoring Amj. You have former Presidents arguing about this, and high level officials.

I find it hard to believe that Mousavi who purposely stayed out of politics for 20 years, and reportedly turned down offers to run for President on several occasions before would jeopardize his standing in Iran just because. There's clearly something fishy going on, and the protesters have absolutely every right to scream at their top of their lungs in this case.

I actually think having a new election, with proper safe guards (maybe UN monitored) is the best way out of this, even more so than getting rid of the Supreme Leader. I heard there's talk that one will happen, and needs to happen. Amj, Mousavi and all the people can run and we can find out who the people want to be their President.

Rumors are that a run off may happen.