Police swoop on Melbourne homes after Somali Islamists' terror plot exposed

[Bigfella]

If it makes the news. Im quite willing to accept our Federal services cleaning the mess up behind closed doors. What people know generally doesnt hurt them and you can bury a lot of people out H-range ;)

You seem to forget that due process of law is only the most recent idea for dealing with insurgents. The English colonial system worked... The German system in WW2 worked even better... The Roman system better still...

Im not saying lets go randomly shoot people but im happy if a secret panel of independant judges overseen by a government comittee makes the decisions, hands out the warrants and lets ASIO knock on the correct doors at 3am. Permenantly Embargo all media coverage of these 'disappearances' but make sure news slips out here and there... in dribs and drabs, enough to let any possible new recruits know that its not the best line of work to get into.

I really don't feel like getting into a big shouting match on this. if you really have no problem with the government secretly trying & executing people then I'd be wasting my time.

[chakos]

Its not about bollocks, its about due process & rule of law - two of the key things that make us better than them. Its not about bollocks, its about brains - the reason we will prevail. Shoot these guys today & I guarantee you that by last prayers tommorrow you will not only recruit more terrorists than a decade of AQ propaganda, but you will dry up most of our domestic informants.

I imagine Dr Haneef is plesed that we lacked 'bollocks' when the Feds as good as convicted him. Likewise Mamdouh Habib, who got a bit of torture thrown into his free flight from Pakistan to Gitmo (via Egypt). Sometimes the authorities get it wrong.

The whole 'swift justice' thing has a high feelgood factor, but it is self defeating. Our slow, boring legal system is one of the most important features of our free & democratic society. What was it ben Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".

If it makes the news. Im quite willing to accept our Federal services cleaning the mess up behind closed doors. What people know generally doesnt hurt them and you can bury a lot of people out H-range ;)

You seem to forget that due process of law is only the most recent idea for dealing with insurgents. The English colonial system worked... The German system in WW2 worked even better... The Roman system better still...

Im not saying lets go randomly shoot people but im happy if a secret panel of independant judges overseen by a government comittee makes the decisions, hands out the warrants and lets ASIO knock on the correct doors at 3am. Permenantly Embargo all media coverage of these 'disappearances' but make sure news slips out here and there... in dribs and drabs, enough to let any possible new recruits know that its not the best line of work to get into.

[Bigfella]

The problem is your not killing it.. your putting it in goal for an insufficient amount of time after spending millions paying for both sides of the court case (i doubt any would be supplying their own lawyers).

I would have no problem if they arrested them, took them to Holsworthy anyways and dispached them in pre-dug holes out the back of H-range (if they want to die in a hail of bullets carrying out Allahs will at Holsworthy who are we to defy Allah and not oblige them)... but somehow i doubt we have the bollocks to take that kind of action.

Its not about bollocks, its about due process & rule of law - two of the key things that make us better than them. Its not about bollocks, its about brains - the reason we will prevail. Shoot these guys today & I guarantee you that by last prayers tommorrow you will not only recruit more terrorists than a decade of AQ propaganda, but you will dry up most of our domestic informants.

I imagine Dr Haneef is plesed that we lacked 'bollocks' when the Feds as good as convicted him. Likewise Mamdouh Habib, who got a bit of torture thrown into his free flight from Pakistan to Gitmo (via Egypt). Sometimes the authorities get it wrong.

The whole 'swift justice' thing has a high feelgood factor, but it is self defeating. Our slow, boring legal system is one of the most important features of our free & democratic society. What was it ben Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".

[Mobbme]

Remember Operation Wrath of God? I think its time something like that happens again.

So many guys that preach terrorism, might as well start hunting them down cuz the government surely isn't!

[chakos]

Yeah, but one stray bullet & you have the PR nightmare from hell. Kill it before it takes its first breath.

The problem is your not killing it.. your putting it in goal for an insufficient amount of time after spending millions paying for both sides of the court case (i doubt any would be supplying their own lawyers).

I would have no problem if they arrested them, took them to Holsworthy anyways and dispached them in pre-dug holes out the back of H-range (if they want to die in a hail of bullets carrying out Allahs will at Holsworthy who are we to defy Allah and not oblige them)... but somehow i doubt we have the bollocks to take that kind of action.

[Bigfella]

Would have been smarter if the feds played dumb, warned the military to give their rentaguards a week off and man the checkpoints with veteran infantry, loaded up TAG East and kept it as a mobile reserve and then let the terrorists have a try.

Excellent live fire training and no legal fees afterwards.

I live about 3km from Holsworthy (just across the river down my street) and used to train there when i was in cadets... plenty of places to bury bodies. Land mass wise the number i hear tossed around is 1/6 the total area of Sydney is comprised of Holsworthy base and surrounding defence land used for training.

Yeah, but one stray bullet & you have the PR nightmare from hell. Kill it before it takes its first breath.

[chakos]

Would have been smarter if the feds played dumb, warned the military to give their rentaguards a week off and man the checkpoints with veteran infantry, loaded up TAG East and kept it as a mobile reserve and then let the terrorists have a try.

Excellent live fire training and no legal fees afterwards.

I live about 3km from Holsworthy (just across the river down my street) and used to train there when i was in cadets... plenty of places to bury bodies. Land mass wise the number i hear tossed around is 1/6 the total area of Sydney is comprised of Holsworthy base and surrounding defence land used for training.

[Merlin]

Send them packing.

Do you mean like what the US are doing with the Gitmo detainees? Have you decided where to pack them to?

[tankie]

bury them.

100%;)

[tankie]

Send them packing.

Yea just like we do in the UK ,,,,,,,,,,,NOT

[Bigfella]

The feds saved their sorry arses...

The plan was to go to Holsworthy, the biggest base in any of the Southern states and start killing soldiers with automatic weapons...GOOD LUCK

Yes they may have killed the rentaguards at the main gate but Holsworthy is massive, tens of thousands of acres... by the time they got anywhere juicy the real security (army response teams) would have buried them.

Oh and thats also where TAG EAST is based.. one of our two premier counter terror squads...

Really there wasnt much thought put into this one, hardly terrorist masterminds these lot.

Aside from the fact that these guys weren't too bright, it is clear that the security services knew about this well in advance. We will probably never know all the details, but I am betting that the tip off or at least some of the intel pointing them toward these guys came from within the local Islamic community. ASIO & the Feds have been very effective in getting info from local muslims, either by undecover work or just plain old informants.

I still believe that at some point there will be a terrorist attack in Australia - probably by the equivalent of a 'lone angry nut'. They tend to be the hardest to stop no matter if they are a Muslim out to impress Allah or an angry white guy with a grudge. At this point, however, fewer people have been killed In Australia by Islamic fundamentalists than by a long list of fanatics (including Irish, Armenians, Croats, White Supremacists & anti-Abortion nuts). Lets hope it stays that way.

[chakos]

The feds saved their sorry arses...

The plan was to go to Holsworthy, the biggest base in any of the Southern states and start killing soldiers with automatic weapons...GOOD LUCK

Yes they may have killed the rentaguards at the main gate but Holsworthy is massive, tens of thousands of acres... by the time they got anywhere juicy the real security (army response teams) would have buried them.

Oh and thats also where TAG EAST is based.. one of our two premier counter terror squads...

Really there wasnt much thought put into this one, hardly terrorist masterminds these lot.

[Merlin]

The concern for people in these countries is that they are their citizens, their neighbors. Some were born and brought up there. Some were not originally Muslims.

[silentsam]

Bury them.

[Kernow]

Send them packing.