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  • Will they have the courage?

    UK, Germany call for stronger European action against Gaddafi

    The Times - Thursday, March 10

    Britain and Germany are calling for more decisive measures to stop Colonel Gaddafi being able to use his oil revenues to finance attacks on his own people.

    They also want EU foreign ministers meeting today to back moves to strip the Libyan leader of the international immunity he enjoys as a head of state.

    The proposals come in a joint letter by William Hague and his German counterpart, Guido Westerwelle, as they try to increase the diplomatic pressure on Colonel Gaddafi to step down.

    In the letter addressed to Baroness Ashton of Upholland, who is chairing today’s meeting of all 27 EU foreign ministers in Brussels, the pair also call for an end to all co-operation with the Gaddafi regime. They go on to set out a vision for the EU’s policy with its southern neighbours that uses European cash to reward democratic transition.

    In a plan for the next steps over Libya, the pair urge the foreign ministers to agree a declaration that “the EU and its member states will not work or co-operate with Gaddafi and that he has to step aside to allow for a true democratic transformation of the country”.

    They then call for tougher sanctions, saying that the measures already taken to ban visas and freeze assets for Colonel Gaddafi and 25 of his close associates should be extended to others in the regime.

    They add that the EU “could support the suspension of Gaddafi’s sovereign immunity” and consider steps to “ensure that Gaddafi is not able to use oil revenues to finance his military campaign”.

    A British official added that this could mean the setting up of an escrow account for oil revenues that could eventually channel money to emerging leaders in the east of Libya.

    Mr Hague and Mr Westerwelle also call for a significant increase in humanitarian aid and an EU fact-finding mission to eastern Libya.

    On the wider region, they then add: “Our vision is a comprehensive partnership of equals between the peoples of Europe and its neighbourhood, underpinned by deeper and wider economic integration.

    “We can achieve this by a custom-made co-operation of the European Union with those that want this partnership and see in it as an opportunity to support the changes they want themselves.”

    Britain and Germany are calling for more decisive measures to stop Colonel Gaddafi being able to use his oil revenues to finance attacks on his own people
    They also want EU foreign ministers meeting today to back moves to strip the Libyan leader of the international immunity he enjoys as a head of state.
    The proposals come in a joint letter by William Hague and his German counterpart, Guido Westerwelle, as they try to increase the diplomatic pressure on Colonel Gaddafi to step down.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........................................
    I just hope that Haque and the rest of the UK government, along with the respective people in Europe have the courage of thier convictions..........
    Events are moving at break neck speed, and the qadaffi clan are getting pretty dam confident right now...................
    sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  • #2
    NATO has upped AWACS surveillance to 24 hours. They're watching. Ooooooh...

    What's to watch? You like the guy? Do nothing. Don't like him? Help. Help A LOT. Buy oil from the provisional government. Don't buy from Gaddafi. Bomb their units. Dare their air farce to rise up. Put air-control parties on the deck.

    Sh!t! The C.I.A. (all twenty guys) and some special forces guys took down the taliban in a month. This would be every bit as easy. Libya is just across the lil' pond from Euroville.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    • #3
      Meanwhile, here in the US.....

      Obama takes on bullies at White House anti-bullying summit - CSMonitor.com

      Obama takes on bullies at White House anti-bullying summit

      President Obama showcased federal, state, local initiatives to address bullying, at a White House webcast on bullying prevention....

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      • #4
        S - 2 response

        Steve I hate the bastard...............think I said that in another post yesterday, oh yes to the Colonel................. this is turning into a mess real quick..............
        sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

        Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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        • #5
          They better move fast and decisively. Screw all this legal mumbo-jumbo stuff. If Gaddafi's forces take down the rebels, he'll appeal to his Muslim brethren to protect him against the western infidels. They'll hold their noses and comply...he'll have oil to trade for weapons. Remember Saddam.
          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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          • #6
            France is currently pushing for a military strike, with Germany holding the brake. (For Germany to agree/take part in any such operation, a mandat from the UN or Nato would be required, otherwise it is a violation of the constitution.)

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            • #7
              Tarek Morgen Reply

              Tarek,

              "France is currently pushing for a military strike, with Germany holding the brake."

              This is France's moment to unleash their independant nature. Go DO something. Same for the Italians.

              As for Germany-lead, follow or get out of the way...

              America? Not our business and we're not buying Libyan oil. That's the last thing the world needs is for us to take the lead again. Oh...,we can but time for somebody else to make the headlines.

              We'll be a part of the "coalition of the willing"...
              "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
              "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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              • #8
                Well there is a problem with hat. For one getting Germans to agree to any kind of combat operations is very hard. Even in the theoretical (though completely unlikely case nowadays) that Germany itself gets invaded, we would have a public debate if we have the right to fight back...and even if you are able to Germany to more or less agree to any serious actions..you also want Merkel to act fast and decisive, and THAT is just not going to happen.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                  They better move fast and decisively. Screw all this legal mumbo-jumbo stuff. If Gaddafi's forces take down the rebels, he'll appeal to his Muslim brethren to protect him against the western infidels. They'll hold their noses and comply...he'll have oil to trade for weapons. Remember Saddam.
                  Sir, I don't think that would happen. Gaddafi is a pretty shrewd guy. He gave up his WMD program after seeing Saddam's fate. He knows he can be squashed like a bug. His whole job is to hold onto power and live his opulent life style. These dictators aren't driven by religious fanaticism. He may not like the west, but he likes his money and power.

                  Saddam was the same, except he made a single error of daring the US to attack. Gaddafi will not make that mistake. Notice that he actually blamed al queda for the rebellion.
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by S2 View Post
                    This is France's moment to unleash their independant nature. Go DO something.
                    That would require a crazy woman or a short megalomaniac to lead them. How tall is Sarkozy?
                    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
                      Well there is a problem with hat. For one getting Germans to agree to any kind of combat operations is very hard. Even in the theoretical (though completely unlikely case nowadays) that Germany itself gets invaded, we would have a public debate if we have the right to fight back...
                      Easiest invasion ever. :)

                      Poland: Now's your chance, go for it! Denmark: You can take back Schleswig!
                      Last edited by rj1; 14 Mar 11,, 18:17.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by S2 View Post
                        Sh!t! The C.I.A. (all twenty guys) and some special forces guys took down the taliban in a month. This would be every bit as easy. Libya is just across the lil' pond from Euroville.
                        I can't help but think that we already have some boots on the ground in Libya, either SOF or spooks, though they're probably keeping a low-profile and just providing surveillence at this point.
                        "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stitch View Post
                          I can't help but think that we already have some boots on the ground in Libya, either SOF or spooks, though they're probably keeping a low-profile and just providing surveillence at this point.
                          Every missile launcher, comms centre and main ammo depots etc will be marked and ready to be taken out when, and if, the word is go!

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                          • #14
                            We help the rebels take out Gaddafi...then what? There will be a dozen different factions fighting for control. The country will descend into civil war. Who will provide the peace keeping force to hold the country together? To what end? Remember, the west helps take out Gaddafi and now owns this mess. Did we not learn anything from A-stan and Iraq?
                            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                            • #15
                              I have to agree with gunnut. The problem certainly isn't lack of capability, it is more an apparent lack of a coherent strategy for what will happen after pacification.

                              No more Nation Building™!

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