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No Fly Zone for Libya?

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  • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
    How can a rebel who means business drive in a "Cherry"?
    People made fun of this car company with a name of "Hyundai" just about 20 years ago.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.


    • I am not making fun of any company, I remember I was wondering wtf this SONY thing is when I was a kid. I am saying name Cherry and rebels on it don't get along in my head. I am all stereotypes if you are in an old Toyota pickup you are a rebel, if it is new you are UN :D
      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.


      • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
        I am not making fun of any company, I remember I was wondering wtf this SONY thing is when I was a kid. I am saying name Cherry and rebels on it don't get along in my head. I am all stereotypes if you are in an old Toyota pickup you are a rebel, if it is new you are UN :D
        The Chinese will come up with a new name if "Cherry" doesn't sell abroad. "National" didn't sell well so it's marketed in the US as "Panasonic."

        A new name is cheap to do. Throw some letters together and make sure it doesn't offend the locals, brand name.
        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.


        • I'm surprised, for an allegedly poor populace, how many current model vehicles they are driving!
          Ego Numquam


          • Originally posted by Chunder View Post
            I'm surprised, for an allegedly poor populace, how many current model vehicles they are driving!
            Why do you think they are "allegedly poor"? Lybia under Kaddafi was probably the richest country in Africa. Kaddafi made a typical mistake - he gave the population high level of life and edication, but forget to give to Lybian youth a place to use their time and edication.

            But, I bet the new "democratic" government will be fast to abondon all this "socialistic wrongdoings".
            Winter is coming.


            • Originally posted by NUS View Post
              Why do you think they are "allegedly poor"?

              My Brain cells don't analyse such things, they are more concerned with day to day life. Still we work hard and we can't afford current model vehecles - and I'm supposed to live in a decadent western society.
              Ego Numquam


              • Let Libya sort itself out 0

                By Peter Worthington ,QMI Agency
                First posted: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:32:49 EDT PM

                TORONTO -

                It seems that the rebels in Libya have changed their minds, and now want foreign troops on their soil to help them get rid of Muammar Ghadafi.

                The official reason is that the troops are needed “for humanitarian principles” because more children are being killed than the rebels anticipated.

                The real reason is because the rebels aren’t organized, aren’t trained to fight, and because Ghadafi’s forces, be they mercenaries or whatever, are far more lethal.

                One of those making the appeal for French or British soldiers is Nuri Abdullah Abdullati who is a big shot in the defence of Misurata where the fighting is heavy and the rebels are being clobbered.

                Whether the Brits or French will accede to the rebels’ plea is unknown, but the whole scenario lends substance to U.S. President Barack Obama’s reluctance and refusal to commit American soldiers.

                Rebellion in Libya and throughout the Arab world is not America’s doing, nor is it Britain’s or France’s responsibility.

                The cause for rebellion in Libya is Muammar Ghadafi himself.

                So let the people who started it, finish it, or quit.

                It’s almost as simple as that, unless the developed world wants to go back to colonial days of outposts on the fringes of various European empires.

                Initially the Libyan rebels only wanted air strikes to take out Ghadafi’s planes and missiles. Otherwise, they had him on the run.

                They were wrong — as were foreign observers who felt Ghadafi was a spent force. I include myself in that category.

                What was overlooked was that Ghadafi is not like other tyrants.

                Rather than flee with his sons and Libya’s bank account, Ghadafi turned out to be a tyrant of the old school who was prepared to fight to the end and believed in the myth of his own invulnerability.

                Even when some pilots fled with their strike aircraft to Malta rather than bomb their own people, and soldiers shed their uniforms to join the rebels, Ghadafi wasn’t deterred.

                Now there seems a chance that he will prevail, at least for awhile.

                In his 30 years of power, Ghadafi has maintained a sort of Praetorian guard, while short-changing the army which he feared might spawn a revolution like he himself did when he staged a coup.

                Libya is a country of six million people, one would think a combat division of any western country could mop up Ghadafi’s forces.

                Libya is hardly a Vietnam quagmire, especially if foreign troops leave when the job is done.

                Still, Libya is not the business of any foreign power.

                Obama was justified not to take charge of ousting Ghadafi, but only play a supporting role.

                What about Britain and France, the most hawkish of allied countries eager to bounce Ghadafi? Their temptation is to supply the rebels with weaponry so they can do their own fighting.

                The problem with that is twofold: Rebels don’t have sufficient know-how to use modern weaponry effectively, or eventually that weaponry will be used for purposes that are against the interests of those who supplied it.

                Saddam Hussein’s war against Iran had both sides using weaponry supplied by the U.S., Ethiopia’s war against Eritrea used both U.S. and Soviet-supplied weapons, Latin American conflicts use American weaponry and in early Pakistan-India conflicts, weapons were supplied by our side.

                Anyway, let Libya sort itself out — and we’ll provide aid to the winner, so long as it isn’t Ghadafi.
                To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway


                • Armed US Predator drones are carrying out missions over Libya, Defence Secretary Robert Gates has said.

                  Mr Gates said their use had been authorised by President Barack Obama and would give "precision capability" to the military operation.

                  US drones are already used to target militants along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

                  Libyan rebels have been battling Col Gaddafi's troops since February but have recently made little headway.

                  "President Obama has said that where we have some unique capabilities, he is willing to use those," Mr Gates told a news conference.

                  He said two armed, unmanned Predators were being made available to Nato as needed, and marked a "modest contribution" to the military operations.

                  Mr Gates denied that the drone deployment was evidence of "mission creep" in Libya and said there were still no plans to put US "boots on the ground" in Libya.

                  "There's no wiggle room in that," he said.

                  Gen James Cartwright, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the first mission had taken place on Thursday but turned back due to bad weather.

                  He said the drones - which can fly at a lower altitude than conventional fighter jets - were "uniquely suited for urban areas", providing improved visibility of tanks and other potential targets.

                  Post captured

                  Earlier on Thursday, Libyan rebels seized control of a border post on the Tunisian border after about 100 government soldiers fled, say reports.

                  The post is on the road between the Libyan town of Nalut and Dehiba in Tunisia.

                  Continue reading the main story
                  Chris Hondros: The last pictures
                  Photographer deaths 'sad' - Libya

                  The move marks a rare advance against government troops in the west of the country and followed intense fighting in the western mountain region.

                  Restrictions on journalists in remote areas of Libya mean it is hard to independently verify such reports.

                  Fierce fighting is also continuing in the besieged western city of Misrata, with at least seven people killed on Thursday.

                  Medics say more than 1,000 people have died in weeks of fighting.

                  Residents say they are being targeted in the streets by snipers firing indiscriminately.

                  Rebels in Misrata claim to have found remnants of cluster bombs but the Libyan government has so far denied the charge.

                  Predator drones have been used to target militants on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan
                  The BBC's Orla Guerin in Misrata says she has seen the bombs herself and that doctors have told her they are causing increasingly horrific injuries, with some civilians losing limbs.

                  On Wednesday, two journalists died in a mortar attack in the city - Tim Hetherington, a British-American filmmaker and Chris Hondros, an American photographer.

                  A Ukrainian doctor was also killed in a separate artillery blast in Misrata on Wednesday. His wife was reportedly seriously injured in the incident.

                  Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim has said that if foreign troops enter Misrata the government would "unleash hell".

                  "We will be a ball of fire. We will make it 10 times as bad as Iraq," he said, saying the government was arming people in preparation.

                  Hundreds of foreign workers, Libyans and injured people are being evacuated from Misrata by sea to the rebel-held city of Benghazi in the east.

                  'Vicious attacks'

                  UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has called on the Libyan authorities to "stop fighting and stop killing people".

                  Click to play

                  AdvertisementParents of missing US journalist Clare Gillis "want her home"
                  He said the UN's priority was to bring about "a verifiable and effective ceasefire" to enable humanitarian work and political dialogue to take place.

                  US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has condemned what she called the "vicious attacks" on Libyan civilians.

                  She also demanded that Libyan authorities immediately release US citizens they have "unjustly detained," including at least two reporters.

                  The parents of Clare Gillis, one of the missing journalists, said she was able to contact them on Thursday for the first time since she was detained on 5 April.

                  They told the Atlantic, one of the papers Ms Gillis was working for, that she was in good health but had not been allowed a visit by humanitarian or diplomatic officials.

                  BBC News - US deploys armed drones over Libya
                  "They want to test our feelings.They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and their newspapers."



                  • How is deploying armed predators an escalation from F-15 strike eagles dropping a massive amounts of munitions! Why does it need specific presidential approval? Why wouldn't such a deployment, be requested by the commander of the operation, and authorized by Africa command?

                    EDIT: I forgot, it shifted too Nato. Still though, why would it need separate approval? Why wouldn't the DOD approve such a request from NATO Command?