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US Ambassador to Libya Killed in Rocket Attack

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  • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    We don't understand that just because Christianity hasn't declared war on Islam, the Islamic leaders have certainly declared war on us and they're willing to employ multiple vehicles.
    Crusades, several pope(s), few centuries...
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    • All I can see in the American press is that Obama/Clinton are terribly sad, had their photos taken with the corpses and Romney is a bastard.
      Romney threw a political jab and the media landed a takedown and is working the ground and pound - no surprise that would happen.

      Do you know that the rescue force was ambushed? The rest of the world does.
      Even radical leftie Rachel Madcow covered details of the attack on her show- I can only stomach a few minutes of her a month so I can't tell you how much.

      Which is entirely irrelevant to the US Ambassador being killed in a planned attack, the US forces sent to rescue him being ambushed on the way, and his only protection prior to the attack being subcontracted to a Libyan militia.
      Even Liberal Rachel Maddow blamed it on a planned terrorist attack not the film.

      Having 'profound respect for people of all faiths' (as long as they're not an Egyptian Coptic filmmaker ) doesn't seem to be working out too well.
      The director wanted his 15 minutes of fame, though under his Israeli alias, don't see the problem with dragging him through the mud, proverbially, as well now that he has it.

      ===========
      If I'm being sarcastic its just me wondering what planet have you lived on to be surprised the story has played out this way...
      Last edited by troung; 15 Sep 12,, 23:57.
      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
        Crusades, several pope(s), few centuries...
        Was that not in response to the 11century Islamic wars on Christianity? Over the first 10 years of the 11th Century over 30,000 churches were destroyed by Muslim aggressors.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dave lukins View Post
          Was that not in response to the 11century Islamic wars on Christianity? Over the first 10 years of the 11th Century over 30,000 churches were destroyed by Muslim aggressors.
          Were those actions holy wars blessed by a religious leader or armies conquering and annihilating whatever on their way?

          Christianity hasn't declared war on Islam
          It is exactly what the pope did.
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by troung View Post
            If I'm being sarcastic its just me wondering what planet have you lived on to be surprised the story has played out this way...
            You're right, I'm being silly.
            "Smile and wave boys, smile and wave."
            Attached Files
            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

            Leibniz

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            • Doktor Reply

              "Were those actions holy wars blessed by a religious leader or armies conquering and annihilating whatever on their way?"

              How do you think 30,000 churches were destroyed? Yes. It was very much a holy war. They call it, I believe, JIHAD. Do you think that was all which was destroyed? Islam rode a wave of ascendancy over the top of the N. African Berbers and into Visigoth Spain and, beyond, southwestern France. They were checked at Constantinople but, clearly, that wasn't the final word.

              It was a clash of civilizations and it's, distasteful or otherwise, going to reoccur unless moderate muslims determine that they will not permit their religion to be usurped by a virulent element of their society.

              Others will have no choice but to defend their way of life and, as we all know, the best defense is a good offense.
              "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
              "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                They


                The Imams Committee of the Michigan Muslim Community Council also has officially condemned the killing of Ambassador Stevens in Libya.

                The imams do support our freedoms, but also denounce the abuse of such privileges, including the promotion of hatred via inflammatory literature, movie or speech by individuals or groups. Such actions by all extremists must not be allowed to damage the emerging freedoms in the Middle East and peaceful co-existence everywhere. We urge all Muslims to peacefully oppose any provocative or aggressive acts against their faith.
                Sorry BF but there is no condemnation there except of those engaged in freedom of speech. Not one word for the dead Americans, none spared for the need for diplomats to be inviolable and the defense of freedom was directly contradicted by the rest of the blurb..... Mikayla face.... not impressed

                Comment


                • Originally posted by dave lukins View Post
                  Over the first 10 years of the 11th Century over 30,000 churches were destroyed by Muslim aggressors.
                  You might want to recheck your timeline. It wasn't that that it was a response to.

                  Conquest of Castilia, Leon, Barcelona = concluded with death of Abi Al-Mansur, 1002 AD.
                  Virtual Collapse of Umayyad Califate = 1016 AD.
                  Conquest of Anatolia by Seljuks = 1071 AD.
                  Gregor VII pondering to reconquer Jerusalem = 1074 AD.
                  Peace between Constantinople and the Seljuks = 1078 AD. (= shelving of above plans)
                  Independence of the Rum Sultanate from the Seljuks = 1081 AD.
                  War between Rum Sultanate and Seljuks = ca 1084-1086 AD.
                  Calls by Alexios to conquer weakened Rum Sultanate, offer to unite churches = ca 1091ff AD.
                  First Crusade = called 1095 AD by Urban II, executed 1096-1099 AD.

                  The motivation for the First Crusade was Urban II attempting to reunite the Catholic and the Orthodox church under his banner, while establishing the church as a superpower with directive supremacy over the former Carolingian fiefdoms north of Italy. He was successful in the latter part of his mission, not so much in the first part.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                    Sorry BF but there is no condemnation there except of those engaged in freedom of speech. Not one word for the dead Americans, none spared for the need for diplomats to be inviolable and the defense of freedom was directly contradicted by the rest of the blurb..... Mikayla face.... not impressed
                    Sorry, wrong quote. Here is the full text. Does everything you ask & more:

                    (Royal Oak, MI, 9/12/11) – The Imams’ Council of the Michigan Muslim Community Council condemns in the strongest terms the killing of the US Ambassador Christopher Stevens in Libya and other embassy staffers. Islam strictly prohibits the killing or harming of diplomats and civilians under any circumstance.

                    Such violence is against the Islamic teachings and the spirit of the Holy Qur'an. The Qur’an teaches, “If anyone slays a human being unless it be [in punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth-it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind...” (5:32)

                    On behalf of the imams and the Muslim community we offer our condolences and deepest sympathy to the family of Ambassador Stevens and other victims of violence as we pray for peace and a world free of hate and bigotry.

                    The imams do support our freedoms, but also denounce the abuse of such privileges, including the promotion of hatred via inflammatory literature, movie, or speech by individuals or groups. Such actions by all extremists must not be allowed to damage the emerging freedoms in the Middle East and peaceful co-existence everywhere. We urge all Muslims to peacefully oppose any provocative or aggressive acts against their faith.

                    MMCC Condemns Violence and Ambassador's Killing
                    sigpic

                    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                    • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      Were those actions holy wars blessed by a religious leader...
                      Yes.

                      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                      It is exactly what the pope did.
                      And he will have to do that again.

                      On another note,I noticed serious delusions in this thread.
                      1. That somehow(no idea how) ''some'' of the Muslims have a good image of America.Those some may be in single digits percents.
                      2.That Libyans have a good image of America.Shall I remind you that half the population of that country LOST the civil war?
                      3.Also noticed are the eternal excuses:''not all'',''imams apologized'',''religion of peace'' and so on.There is a certain degree of ignorance(to put it mildly).Not unexpected from a certain part and one that is closely connected to a certain worldview.
                      Last edited by Mihais; 16 Sep 12,, 06:30.
                      Those who know don't speak
                      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                      • Originally posted by kato View Post
                        You might want to recheck your timeline. It wasn't that that it was a response to.

                        Conquest of Castilia, Leon, Barcelona = concluded with death of Abi Al-Mansur, 1002 AD.
                        Virtual Collapse of Umayyad Califate = 1016 AD.
                        Conquest of Anatolia by Seljuks = 1071 AD.
                        Gregor VII pondering to reconquer Jerusalem = 1074 AD.
                        Peace between Constantinople and the Seljuks = 1078 AD. (= shelving of above plans)
                        Independence of the Rum Sultanate from the Seljuks = 1081 AD.
                        War between Rum Sultanate and Seljuks = ca 1084-1086 AD.
                        Calls by Alexios to conquer weakened Rum Sultanate, offer to unite churches = ca 1091ff AD.
                        First Crusade = called 1095 AD by Urban II, executed 1096-1099 AD.

                        The motivation for the First Crusade was Urban II attempting to reunite the Catholic and the Orthodox church under his banner, while establishing the church as a superpower with directive supremacy over the former Carolingian fiefdoms north of Italy. He was successful in the latter part of his mission, not so much in the first part.
                        You were successful in hiding the forrest in a mass of trees.All of the above is true,but of secondary importance.
                        Those who know don't speak
                        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          Sorry BF but there is no condemnation there except of those engaged in freedom of speech. Not one word for the dead Americans, none spared for the need for diplomats to be inviolable and the defense of freedom was directly contradicted by the rest of the blurb..... Mikayla face.... not impressed
                          What really appalled me most was when one of my very close Muslim friends, a great guy with a golden heart, updated as his facebook status; "It's really sad for our societies that we have such kind of people and movement that like to totally provoke disgusting lies and hatred against some of the greatest human beings that lived on the face of the earth." It left me appalled that this very noble person, who would lecture the rest of us on compassion and humanity, would find that amateurish movie to be the "sad thing for our societies", rather than the blood spilled over that movie.

                          He goes on to write, "I cant talk about the greatness, nobility, mercy and amazing character of the prophet in a single post. For this reason I've posted this amazing book about the biography of the prophet." Not a single mention of the pointless blood spilled over this issue! There is clearly something very wrong here. The levels of morality are clearly not the same, as a certain book, and it's prophet, clearly seem to take precedence over the value of human life! I do not anymore feel the handful of clerics or Muslims condemning the terrorist acts as a wholehearted effort. One question which I would like to put to all Muslims claiming to be "moderates"; Do they hold human life to be more valuable than the sanctity of their book and their prophet?
                          Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                          -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                            As to your comment see above. Luckily you don't have that right to unilaterally decide what is good behavior and what is not and then pass a sentence simply because you didn't like it.
                            Whether you like it or not, I call 'em as I see 'em.

                            In my world, good behavior does not include purposefully setting the table for murder and mayhem against my family, my friends, and my fellow citizens.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by S2 View Post
                              "Were those actions holy wars blessed by a religious leader or armies conquering and annihilating whatever on their way?"

                              How do you think 30,000 churches were destroyed? Yes. It was very much a holy war. They call it, I believe, JIHAD. Do you think that was all which was destroyed? Islam rode a wave of ascendancy over the top of the N. African Berbers and into Visigoth Spain and, beyond, southwestern France. They were checked at Constantinople but, clearly, that wasn't the final word.
                              Were only Churches destroyed?

                              Then, may I kindly ask the name of the religious leader who ordered the destruction of the churches and the start of the jihad?

                              It was a clash of civilizations and it's, distasteful or otherwise, going to reoccur unless moderate muslims determine that they will not permit their religion to be usurped by a virulent element of their society.

                              Others will have no choice but to defend their way of life and, as we all know, the best defense is a good offense.
                              If it turns out that way, then most of the western countries will face civil wars on a religious base. The way of life wont be the same without the kebaps
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • While problems (some severe others not so much) have indeed occurred at US and other Western embassies and consulates around the world due to the YouTube (read global) posting of an anti-Mohammad production, this is not what happened in Libya.

                                The attack on the US Consulate and subsequent mortar attack on the "safe house" in Benghazi were tactically planned and executed on a military par. It is also apparent to me that these tactical-planners had inside intelligence information.

                                This may upset some people here, but so be it. I am coming to the hard and unpleasant conslusion that the US Department of State was, at a bare minimum, negligent.

                                Consider some things...

                                1) Although there has been no comment on this by any US DoS/DoD officials, there are numerous reports that the US Marine contingent in Cairo fielded weapons that contained no ammunition - Barney Fife Marines
                                2) There was no unruly mod (or any protest that I am aware of) at the US Embassy in Tripoli where Ambassador Stevens usually resides
                                3) No Marine/security contingent accompanied the ambassador to Benghazi
                                4) Despite the countdown to the anniversary of 9/11, no DoS upgrades in security occurred in either Tripoli or Benghazi. This, despite the fact that in Benghazi:

                                a) On June 6, an IED was thrown at the perimeter of the U.S. Consulate
                                b) On June 11, the British ambassador's motorcade came under attack by a rocket-propelled grenade and two security personnel were injured (the Brits subsequently left Benghazi)
                                c) On June 18, armed gunmen attacked the Tunisian Consulate and burned its flag
                                d) On August 5, the International Committee of the Red Cross building in Benghazi was struck by RPGs

                                In virtually all countries in the ME, US Embassies are protected by US Marines. Security at Consulates (such as Benghazi) is awarded to private contractors (such as DynCorp and Aegis) via a Worldwide Protective Services Agreement (WIPS). This was not the case in Benghazi. A few local militiamen were contracted for protection. Their effectiveness? They fled when the compound was breached. A big fat 0 enemy killed or wounded.

                                Re-reading this thread, it strikes me that what really occurred in Libya is not being appreciated in any military manner. Speaking plainly, Benghazi was a lax-security ass-kicking.

                                If I were an American citizen, I would seriously begin to question the politico-cover-our-ass prattle that is emanating from Washington.
                                sigpic

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