Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Syrian Civil War Developments

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
    After Assad steps down, who is supposed to lead Syria to "prosperity and better days"? The Al Qaida infested rebel groups? Everyone realizes now that the rebel groups aren't the democracy craving peasants that they were sometimes made out to be when this whole thing started.

    Watch what the west does on Syria, not what it says - FT



    The Thin Red Line

    *That would be for the Syrians and UN to figure out. And Only the Syrians and UN.

    Let them hold open elections. Anything is better then the close to 80,000 lives already lost or dont you think thats enough because Assad refuses to step down?
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mihais View Post
      If the rebels win,they won't get any S300.If Assad wins,he won't shoot them.If he shoots them,a Sayeret team will take them out.
      Also,an Assad victory needs to understood within the context.A low level insurgency might continue for years,even if major combat ops cease and they get nominal control of the territory.Hezbollah is likely to end the war battered and in little mood for a new fight.
      So the missiles are of little consequence,except the detterence of a foreign intervention now.
      And if Assad wins just think, a few thousand more are going to disappear never mind those killed and then ofocarse comes the "crack down" and the country remains fighting each other, remains a corridor for Iran to funnel weapons through to its proxies.

      If the UNSC wanted a "no fly" zone, trust me when I tell you those S-300's wont make one bit of difference in changing that.

      Assad is doing nothing more then trying to deny recon into that country right now for the rest watching to figure out exactly what is going on.

      If he is in the "right" as many claim then if anything he should be transparent and forthcoming. Otherwise all he is doing is incriminating himself and his military's actions.
      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

      Comment


      • Yes,there will be a crackdown,many thousands will die.So what?
        The consequence of a rebel victory is the destruction of the Christian community in Syria.It's quite obvious that WILL happen,given the behaviour of the freedom fighters in the conquered areas.We're talking about millions of people,both christian and allawite that will be killed or expelled and the destruction of a civilization that lasted millenia.
        Assad is imperfect.But folks can live with him and under him.The alternative is uncceptable.

        There is a precept in medicine:first you must not cause harm.Meaning that if you don't know what you're doing,do nothing.I guess it's valid in other areas as well.
        Those who know don't speak
        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

        Comment


        • Well, IMHO, the only country which might get affected by the S-300 scare is Israel - as in they will have issues if they want to bomb Syria. It's pretty clear by now that Assad won't step down, elections won't happen, West/Iran won't come in directly- so that leaves a bloody civil war, which will die down in intensity over time, in Syria, while probably spreading to neighboring countries in the meantime.

          Basically it sucks to be Syrian right about now, everyone is settling scores using their country as playground..

          Comment


          • "everyone is settling scores using their country as playground.."

            That is the downside to the Arab Spring

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
              *That would be for the Syrians and UN to figure out. And Only the Syrians and UN.

              Let them hold open elections. Anything is better then the close to 80,000 lives already lost or dont you think thats enough because Assad refuses to step down?
              And what if the religious extremist factions in the rebel groups prevail and attempt to take total control? You'll have yet more sectarian and factional violence with potentially tens of thousands more dead - how is arguing that 'the Syrians and UN figure it out' in that scenario different than arguing that 'Syrians and the UN figure it out' in the current scenario?
              Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
              https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

              Comment


              • UN cites ?reasonable grounds? for chemical arms use in Syria - World - CBC News

                If I read this correctly, the UN is suggesting war crimes and chemical weapons use by both the Syrian government and rebels.

                The Syrian government had an existing stockpile of chemical weapons, but who provided chemical weapons to the rebels?
                Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                Comment


                • Dreadnought, Troung, Parihaka and company

                  Dreadnought, Troung, Parihaka and company:

                  "The panel cited increasing use of indiscriminate weapons, including cluster munitions, barrel bombs and surface-to-surface missiles as evidence of the “flagrant disregard” of government forces for the distinction between combatants and civilians demanded by international law. “There is a strong element of retribution in the government’s approach, with civilians paying a price for “allowing” armed groups to operate within their towns,” the report said."
                  http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/05/wo...yria.html?_r=0

                  I believe all three of you defended civilian casualties in US drone strikes in Pakistan by arguing that 'if you lie with dogs you get fleas' (or something similar) - would you therefore apply the same logic in this case, and defend Assad's killing of civilians in areas that the rebels are operating in/from?
                  Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                  https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                    And what if the religious extremist factions in the rebel groups prevail and attempt to take total control? You'll have yet more sectarian and factional violence with potentially tens of thousands more dead - how is arguing that 'the Syrians and UN figure it out' in that scenario different than arguing that 'Syrians and the UN figure it out' in the current scenario?
                    What good would it do if the UN doesnt recognize the government? Look how long it took Hamas and why the UN ever recognized them is beyond the thinking of many.

                    Without recognition, they will find it very diffacult. Outside of China's, Russia's and Irans recognition. Althouth they are large countries, It would not give them the oppertunity to trade, share etc with the globe as a whole. Which IMO, denies them what they "could" have.
                    Last edited by Dreadnought; 04 Jun 13,, 14:04.
                    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                      UN cites ?reasonable grounds? for chemical arms use in Syria - World - CBC News

                      If I read this correctly, the UN is suggesting war crimes and chemical weapons use by both the Syrian government and rebels.

                      The Syrian government had an existing stockpile of chemical weapons, but who provided chemical weapons to the rebels?
                      Thats a very good question to ask. Where did they come from or were they taken from Libya or Sryia's own stockpiles?
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                        Dreadnought, Troung, Parihaka and company:

                        "The panel cited increasing use of indiscriminate weapons, including cluster munitions, barrel bombs and surface-to-surface missiles as evidence of the “flagrant disregard” of government forces for the distinction between combatants and civilians demanded by international law. “There is a strong element of retribution in the government’s approach, with civilians paying a price for “allowing” armed groups to operate within their towns,” the report said."
                        http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/05/wo...yria.html?_r=0

                        I believe all three of you defended civilian casualties in US drone strikes in Pakistan by arguing that 'if you lie with dogs you get fleas' (or something similar) - would you therefore apply the same logic in this case, and defend Assad's killing of civilians in areas that the rebels are operating in/from?
                        The drone strikes are against known terrorist members. They are not only recognized by the US and a hellfire missle is not going to do what artiliary is going to do. Hellfires are many times more precision. Artiliary is a blanketing effect.

                        There is also a big different between targeting a house occupied by known terrorists and the bombing of cities when they clearly know that they are more civilians then there are know enemies and cannot escape.

                        If you have noticed a good majority of those drone strikes have happened while the target/targets are in transit (vehicles) out in the open. Not in cities as you are seeing with Assads forces.
                        Last edited by Dreadnought; 04 Jun 13,, 14:01.
                        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                        Comment


                        • You think that if someone gives Assad some more pinpoint weapons he would still carpet bomb the rebels?
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                            The drone strikes are against known terrorist members. They are not only recognized by the US and a hellfire missle is not going to do what artiliary is going to do. Hellfires are many times more precision. Artiliary is a blanketing effect.

                            There is also a big different between targeting a house occupied by known terrorists and the bombing of cities when they clearly know that they are more civilians then there are know enemies and cannot escape.

                            If you have noticed a good majority of those drone strikes have happened while the target/targets are in transit (vehicles) out in the open. Not in cities as you are seeing with Assads forces.
                            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                            You think that if someone gives Assad some more pinpoint weapons he would still carpet bomb the rebels?
                            Assad is working with what he has - the allies carpet bombed Dresden and other German cities in WWII for example - the US used similar tactics in Vietnam.
                            Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                            https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                              He's working with what he has - the allies bombed Dresden and other German cities in WWII for example.
                              My thinking was along those lines as well. However, since he doesn't have more precise weapons, we'll never know if he is a brutal blood thirsty beast or just a desperate ruler.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                                Assad is working with what he has - the allies carpet bombed Dresden and other German cities in WWII for example - the US used similar tactics in Vietnam.
                                Yes, but after the Germans carpet bombed the Brits for several weeks in a row during the Blitz. The also used Buzz bombs and V2 rockets as well which had virtually no guidance once off the ground. If thats the rules you want to run your war by then you deserve what you get in return.

                                And if you think about how many cities the Germans bombed, shelled, burnt etc. The Germans when they realized they had to retreat back towards Germany invoked a "scorched earth" policy and destroyed everything and anything.

                                IMO,They deserved everything that happened to them

                                The US also firebombed Japan towards the end of the war..

                                IMO, they deserved that too.

                                Vietnam was not just a war between the US and Vietnam, You had both China and the Soviets not just suppling hardware but also soldiers, pilots,techs and trainers as well as intel.

                                P.S. You also missed the above (China and Russia's) participation and funding, supplies and hardware in the Korean War against the US.
                                Last edited by Dreadnought; 04 Jun 13,, 14:40.
                                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X