Syrian Civil War Developments

[zraver]

Why is UN so quite? No-fly zone is the minimum which can be enforced. Most of the civilian death and destruction of property come from aerial bombardment by SAA airforce. Isn't over 75,000 death and 1.2 million displaced enough?

Because we don't know who the bad guys are, or more correctly if the FSA is not in fact worse than Assad.

[Minskaya]

Along with Britain and France, Turkey now also reports that tests confirm the usage of chemical weapons.

Turkey: Tests confirm chemical weapons used in Syria

[Minskaya]

13 killed in blasts near Turkish-Syrian border
May 11, 2013

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkey's Interior Minister Muammer Guler says the death toll in two car bomb explosions in a town near the border with Syria has risen to 13. The bombs exploded in the town of Reyhanli, just across the border from Syria's Idlib province on Saturday, also injuring 22 people. He says one of the car bombs exploded outside the city hall while the other went off outside the post office. Suspicion immediately fell on Syria, but there was no immediate confirmation of its involvement. Turkey, which shares a more than 500-mile border with Syria, has been a crucial supporter of the Syrian rebel cause and Ankara has allowed its territory to be used as a logistics base and staging center for Syrian insurgents.

Source: USA Today

The death toll has since risen to 18. Reyhanli hosts a large Syrian refugee population. There is deep suspicion that elements of the Assad regime (or Hezbollah) engineered this attack in a bid to kill rebel military planners. If so, the Syrian civil war is now seeping across the border into Turkey itself.

[Chogy]

Chemical weapons require both volume and correct delivery techniques to turn them into true WMD, and I'm doubting Syria (or the rebels) have the capability to really jack up the body count. But the possibilities are chilling, and bear monitoring.

[USSWisconsin]

They are terror weapons, and are most effective against civilians. In many cases they would be nearly as dangerous to their users as they were to the enemy. In WWII both sides had them, but high explosives were considered more effective as combat weapons. Neither side used poison gas in any significant military capacity (the Nazi's did use poison gas to murder people in their death camps, but under carefully controlled conditions). Aside from a few gas mines that appear to have been used in Poland early in the war, largely by mistake, they were withheld from combat. I have read many analyses that concluded it wasn't worth it to employ these weapons militarily - they couldn't stop the enemy in battle as well as HE could.

[Minskaya]

Video of the car bomb attacks that struck Reyhanli, Turkey earlier today

[zraver]

RIP, to the victims.

[junoth1001]

They are terror weapons, and are most effective against civilians. In many cases they would be nearly as dangerous to their users as they were to the enemy. In WWII both sides had them, but high explosives were considered more effective as combat weapons. Neither side used poison gas in any significant military capacity (the Nazi's did use poison gas to murder people in their death camps, but under carefully controlled conditions). Aside from a few gas mines that appear to have been used in Poland early in the war, largely by mistake, they were withheld from combat. I have read many analyses that concluded it wasn't worth it to employ these weapons militarily - they couldn't stop the enemy in battle as well as HE could.

There was also the fact that Hitler had experienced the effects of gas on the front line, and this affecting his attitude towards chemical weapons.

[zraver]

There was also the fact that Hitler had experienced the effects of gas on the front line, and this affecting his attitude towards chemical weapons.

Hitler authorized the use of nerve gas on Lenningrad but by the time Germany made enough she was on the defensive and its use was prohibited lest the Soviets respond in kind when the reached German cities. Also, Japan used gas and germs in China.

[junoth1001]

Hitler authorized the use of nerve gas on Lenningrad but by the time Germany made enough she was on the defensive and its use was prohibited lest the Soviets respond in kind when the reached German cities. Also, Japan used gas and germs in China.

It is known that Nazi Germany stockpiled chemical weapons, but, it is interesting that none of the major German players make any mention of it's proposed use against lenningrad. Checking his Directives and no mention is made of the deployment of "special weapons".

R. V. Jones in his book "Reflections on Intelligence" says on page 254'

"in the discussion Churchill asked me why I thought that the Germans had not themselves resorted to gas warfare. I was able to tell him one positive item of evidence for what we had learnt from decrypting Japanese diplomatic signals that Hitler had told the Japanese Ambassador in Berlin that he had some new and very effective gases, but that he was refraining from using them because he thought that we had equally deadly ones. Here he was wrong, because his chemists had discovered nerve gases and ours had not; but the fact he thought that we had was itself a deterrent, and neither side resorted to gas warfare."


As for Japan, the history and activities of Unit 731 is well documented.

[Parihaka]

My condolences to the latest Turkish victims

[zraver]

It is known that Nazi Germany stockpiled chemical weapons, but, it is interesting that none of the major German players make any mention of it's proposed use against lenningrad. Checking his Directives and no mention is made of the deployment of "special weapons".

R. V. Jones in his book "Reflections on Intelligence" says on page 254'

"in the discussion Churchill asked me why I thought that the Germans had not themselves resorted to gas warfare. I was able to tell him one positive item of evidence for what we had learnt from decrypting Japanese diplomatic signals that Hitler had told the Japanese Ambassador in Berlin that he had some new and very effective gases, but that he was refraining from using them because he thought that we had equally deadly ones. Here he was wrong, because his chemists had discovered nerve gases and ours had not; but the fact he thought that we had was itself a deterrent, and neither side resorted to gas warfare."


As for Japan, the history and activities of Unit 731 is well documented.

One source is Muller's Hitler's war in the east 1941-45 a critical assessment page 108.

[junoth1001]

One source is Muller's Hitler's war in the east 1941-45 a critical assessment page 108.

No offence, but, it would have handy, if you had produced a quote from the book. now, I will have to wait until it is delivered by Amazon!

[Mihais]

No offence, but, it would have handy, if you had produced a quote from the book. now, I will have to wait until it is delivered by Amazon!

The lenghts people go for a refutation :)

[zraver]

No offence, but, it would have handy, if you had produced a quote from the book. now, I will have to wait until it is delivered by Amazon!

In Late December the officers in the office of the chief of the general staff considered if a poison gas attack could be carried out on Leningrad. As Gellermann has shown in his study, they pondered the amount of gas needed to seize the city in this was (55a). According to their calculations, hundreds of thousands of shells were needed as well as 330 batteries of artillery to fire them....