Syrian Civil War Developments

[snapper]

All sorts of complicated over there now. Lavrov says Muscovite investigators say it never happened by the way. I wonder what Trumpkins 'big price' may be? Is this his 'red line' that criticised Obama about? Did his talking of getting out of Syria "very soon" embolden Assad? Will this now be reversed? For Macron it seems the line has been crossed. Probably for Britain too. Will Trump go with the allies if they go after Assad? What do the Muscovites do then? Yea sure partly this Obama's fault for drawing his misguided (in my view) "red line" and then backing down to a Muscovite fudge when some serious action then could have removed this butcher Assad forever. I seem to recall the British House of Commons voted against getting involved around the same time so Obama was not alone. Now we face the real possibility of serious escalation - how far will Israel go? I presume they had designated targets and reasons for those targets but if was response for the Douma gas attack that marks a change in normal Israeli policy. Of course they face the prospect of the same illegal weapons being used on them so you can understand their fears. My view is clear. Assad must go. I don't care if the Muscovites and Iranians get rid of him - or hand him over for War Crimes trials or the West has to go in and get him. There can be no peace with a war criminal puppet President of Iran and Moscow.

[TopHatter]

Israeli F-15s fired missiles from Lebanese airspace at the T4 airbase. Russia claims 5 of 8 missiles were intercepted with the remainder impacting and killing 14 people, mostly Iranians near a drone control center. Moscow is pretty upset since Russian forces and jets are present at T4 and the Kremlin wasn't notified prior to the attack.

I wonder if the Kremlin has the balls to retaliate against Israel. It could turn the Israel-Syria area into a shooting gallery very quickly.

[SteveDaPirate]

being reported it was Israel with a couple of F-15's launching from outside of Syria.

Israeli F-15s fired missiles from Lebanese airspace at the T4 airbase. Russia claims 5 of 8 missiles were intercepted with the remainder impacting and killing 14 people, mostly Iranians near a drone control center. Moscow is pretty upset since Russian forces and jets are present at T4 and the Kremlin wasn't notified prior to the attack.

[bfng3569]

US denies missile strike:


https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/08/middl...ntl/index.html

being reported it was Israel with a couple of F-15's launching from outside of Syria.

[TopHatter]

He should be. Assad and Putin playing him like a fiddle.

A 5 year old child could play Trump like a fiddle. Same level of maturity too.

[Ironduke]

Just breaking, a Syrian airfield has been hit, and this could of course be wrong, but I'm going to guess it was a Tomahawk strike in retaliation for the most recent Syrian government gas attack that killed 70+ civilians in Ghouta.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43694588

US denies missile strike:

However, a senior US administration official told CNN Sunday that reports from the region claiming US Tomahawk missiles had struck targets in Syria were not true. The Pentagon also issued a statement denying the attack.

"At this time, the Department of Defense is not conducting air strikes in Syria. However, we continue to closely watch the situation and support the ongoing diplomatic efforts to hold those who use chemical weapons, in Syria and otherwise, accountable," a Pentagon statement said.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/08/middl...ntl/index.html

[Ironduke]

John Bolton's work, no doubt.

A small, flexible force of a couple thousand is obviously preferable to 150,000 troops. Let's hope that Trump isn't "slow-walked" by Bolton into a major deployment/ground war. There are probably 1000 people on WAB who would make a better NSA than Bolton, but we have the disadvantage of not being Fox News personalities.

Regardless of how much I personally dislike Mr. Erdogan and his foreign policy decisions, I still however don't like the idea of playing chicken with Turkey.

Syria war: Trump 'persuaded not to pull out immediately'

US officials say President Trump has been persuaded not to pull the military out of Syria immediately, despite his declaration last week that the US would "be coming out of Syria very soon".

Advisers reportedly convinced him that it could risk a resurgence by the Islamic State (IS) group.

The White House said on Wednesday the US military mission in Syria was coming to a "rapid end".

But it has not announced a timetable for a full troop withdrawal.

A statement said IS was almost completely destroyed, and that the US would consult its allies regarding future plans.

A senior administration official told NBC News that the president had agreed at a meeting on Tuesday to keep troops in Syria for an undetermined period, but "wasn't thrilled about it, to say the least".

More here: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology

Just breaking, a Syrian airfield has been hit, and this could of course be wrong, but I'm going to guess it was a Tomahawk strike in retaliation for the most recent Syrian government gas attack that killed 70+ civilians in Ghouta.

Strikes hit Syrian airfield, state media report

A military airport in Syria has come under missile attack, the country's state media has reported.

It said several people were dead or wounded, and that Syrian air defence was responding.

Syrian TV said loud explosions had been heard near the T4 airbase in the city of Homs in the early hours of Monday.

"Several missiles hit the Tayfur airport," the state news agency SANA said.

Details are still emerging and the reports have not been independently verified.

The reports come amid global alarm over a suspected chemical attack on the rebel-held town of Douma, in Syria's Eastern Ghouta region.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43694588

[Ironduke]

How do you say Machiavellian in arabic?

Mikafili. (ميكافيلي)

[XLAdept]

How do you say Machiavellian in arabic?

[Surreal McCoy]

Trump is pissed off.

Syria chemical attack: Trump threatens "Animal Assad," Putin after suspected chemical

He should be. Assad and Putin playing him like a fiddle.

[Officer of Engineers]

Trump is pissed off.

Syria chemical attack: Trump threatens "Animal Assad," Putin after suspected chemical

[Ironduke]

Indeed I know Nietzsche well and the book you quote from is Beyond Good and Evil. It is hardly gazing into any abyss though to uphold international law in the name of peace - even if it means war in the short term.

Sometimes even in the name of upholding international law - one can become the very monster they're fighting, or an even worse monster, and inadvertently create monsters that would have otherwise never come into existence.

Concerning international law and its application, do you remember what you wrote about Germany imposing its will on other EU nations on matters such as the euro, immigration, etc?

With regards to Syria, we did our bit. ISIS has but a toehold left in the extreme reaches of the Euphrates in southeastern Syria. It's too bad about the Kurds, there's some genuinely good people among them and they've gotten a lot of bad breaks, but that being said, this is now a problem for Turkey, Jordan, the Saudis, et al to solve. US can act as an offshore balancer or come in with a scalpel for surgically precise operations if need be, and use our diplomacy to influence the actions of others and deter bad behaviour, but it's time to pull back and let the locals sort this problem out.

Finally, even the US has limits to its power and influence. It's not as if we have quadrillions of dollars and a 500 million man army to run around and solve all the world's problems.

[Gun Grape]

It is maybe the end of the end Christian Syrians (some of whom still speak Aramaic) and the Kurdish Syrians but what do think happens in Lebanon after? And then Israel maybe? How many lives do they have to lose for liberty - in 2016 the UN estimated 400,000 dead, 22m have been 'displaced' by some reports. To fight against a criminal dictatorship is right - to fight against three dictatorial regimes is heroic. To wash one's hands of their fight because "it's their problem - not mine" only delays the problem reaching your shore.

Well let me see. Had to take a break, for a Skype conversation with my son half way around the world.

Syria went into Lebanon in the 1950s and we intervened. Then in the 80s Israel went into Lebanon and we went in to separate everyone. I went there twice between 1982 and 1984. Saw my best friend shot and 11 other friends die.
Then in 2006 we had to intervene again.Now we are in Syria.

Maybe we just quit trying to pacify the region and let them work it out among themselves then deal with the aftermath. People in that area have been killing each other for centuries. We are not going to stop it. Once the people there get tired of it, then it will quit.

How many lives do they have to lose for liberty? However many it takes. How many more lives do you want us lose for them to decide that they want to coexist?

[Officer of Engineers]

If it had been as simple as that - just Syrians left to themselves - Assad would be gone now. It is not and therein lies the greater danger of what may yet come if Assad remains a puppet dictator to the Iranian Mullahs and Putin. Mark my words if Syria is surrendered because it is "none of our business" that is not the end of the war. It is maybe the end of the end Christian Syrians (some of whom still speak Aramaic) and the Kurdish Syrians but what do think happens in Lebanon after? And then Israel maybe? How many lives do they have to lose for liberty - in 2016 the UN estimated 400,000 dead, 22m have been 'displaced' by some reports. To fight against a criminal dictatorship is right - to fight against three dictatorial regimes is heroic. To wash one's hands of their fight because "it's their problem - not mine" only delays the problem reaching your shore.

Wonderful. You're against Assad, the Mullahs, and Putin but praising the people who wants to put bombs on our streets. You do what you want with those fucks. We'll just let them keep killing each other.

[Ironduke]

If you wish to call the Timurids Mongol successors I can concede that. Not the direct heirs of Genghis though. Nor can I hope to fight the devils I do not know. It's not our job to decide what the future might be. The problems our children or grandchildren may face none can see. Worse evils may arise - or greater good. But for them to have the best possible chance it is our duty to defeat those evils we know of.

There's another old saying.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm sure Bush the Younger had the absolute best of intentions in invading Iraq. Yet for all the trillions of dollars spent and thousands of lives lost, what we got was an Iranian puppet state and ISIS.