Syrian Civil War Developments

[Red Team]

Leaving aside the flying Potemkin Village that is the Su-57

I realize this is a bit off topic but what's wrong with the SU-57? I've found very little info on it other than the usual Russian boasts and India's apparent dissatisfaction during its development cycle.

[Versus]

Today is the anniversary of Gagarin's flight to space. First nation that put man into space and the first nation that put man on Moon are going to end up in a Middle Eastern sand and dirt, fighting over Earth's fart (natural gas). What a way go go...what a way to go.

[Ironduke]

Just curious - if Assad were taken out in a US missile strike - would he go from 'Gas Killing Animal' to 'Passed Gas'?

Britain's May calls Cabinet meeting as UK and US edge closer to Syria strikes

(CNN)Top officials in the US and the United Kingdom are meeting Thursday to discuss their response to an alleged chemical attack in Syria, as US President Donald Trump doubled down on his threats of a missile strike as a means of sending a message to the countries he holds responsible: Syria and Russia.

British Prime Minister Theresa May has convened a Cabinet meeting for Thursday "to discuss the response to Syria," though it's unclear if she'll seek approval for a strike.

The White House National Security team will meet later that day, a source told CNN. It's not known if Trump will attend the meeting but he made his views clear in a Twitter tirade earlier Wednesday, warning Moscow to "get ready" for missiles launched at Syria.

"Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and 'smart!'," Trump said. "You shouldn't be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!"

The US President added that the US relationship with Russia "is worse now than it has ever been, and that includes the Cold War."
Trump's Twitter spray caught most of his aides off guard, as a decision had not yet been made how to respond to the chemical attack in Syria, people familiar with knowledge of the discussions said.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/middl...ntl/index.html

[Versus]

Just curious - if Assad were taken out in a US missile strike - would he go from 'Gas Killing Animal' to 'Passed Gas'?


https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/middl...ntl/index.html

It wouldn't change anything, because Assad is not the problem. If Assad is taken out and the official govt ceased to exist, there would be fracturing of Syria into regions ruled by warlords that would very soon start competing for the uber man of the Middle East, The Arab Neo so to speak, that will lead them into glorious future past in which they can chop heads and rape as much as they want and like (and they like it a lot). Everything that is close to equator despises work and either trades or pillages and burns, no productive efforts no science, just a past and the present, without any sense of the future. Except maybe Israel. Its not cultural or religious thing, its an IQ thing combined in steady climate (no change of seasons) and monolithic landscape (no sense of boundaries). Its one gigantic infinite now, defined by the lack of definition.

[Versus]

We spent 500 years under their rule and their rule consists only of smoking hashish, beading, raping and love of gold. Absolutely there is nothing there except waiting for Godot. I am watching them every day, everything is collectivized, no sense of individuality, boys are trained and taught form day one to be aggressive thugs and girls to be submissive baby machines, strict roles warped up in a fossilized narrative of higher purpose and cause.

[Versus]

As far as I know, Assad's family is a part of some clan that has been ruling Syria for like 700 years or so, so removing him wouldn't solve anything.

[SteveDaPirate]

I realize this is a bit off topic but what's wrong with the SU-57? I've found very little info on it other than the usual Russian boasts and India's apparent dissatisfaction during its development cycle.

India cited a lack of stealthiness in the design compared to the F-35 that couldn't be fixed without major structural changes. The engines are apparently mounted in such a way that only the manufacturer can service them, not the end user. Then of course the actual engines intended for the aircraft are still in development. It also has somewhat limited utility in air to ground due to small weapons bays that can only handle 500 kg ordnance.

India was also unhappy about the lack of input and work share they were receiving from the program. Major design decisions had already been made, and it's pretty clear that the program's purpose in large part is to keep Sukhoi in the fighter business, which precludes giving very much work to Indian companies.

Overall it's a pretty solid evolution of the Flanker, with improved sensors, internal weapons carriage, and reduced RCS from the front although not to the same extent as it's American or Chinese counterparts that used clean sheet stealth designs. Getting the SU-57 into a state where it's ready for actual mass production will be a challenge with the budgetary challenges the program faces.

[snapper]

Today is the anniversary of Gagarin's flight to space. First nation that put man into space and the first nation that put man on Moon are going to end up in a Middle Eastern sand and dirt, fighting over Earth's fart (natural gas). What a way go go...what a way to go.

Muscovy is not the USSR.

[Officer of Engineers]

Muscovy is not the USSR.

Same shit. Different bowl.

[Versus]

Muscovy is not the USSR.

That's not the point, point is the irony of human progress. Counting down...4hrs. Can't wait to reach Crimean War in my analysis. I have a slight suspicion that today's events are re run from those times.

[TopHatter]

That's not the point, point is the irony of human progress. Counting down...4hrs. Can't wait to reach Crimean War in my analysis. I have a slight suspicion that today's events are re run from those times.

Cheeto Benito appears to be backtracking:

Never said when an attack on Syria would take place.
Could be very soon or not so soon at all!
In any event, the United States, under my Administration, has done a great job of ridding the region of ISIS.
Where is our “Thank you America?”

Narcissistic sociopath is bad combination.

At least he spelling "ridding" correctly.

[Officer of Engineers]

Problem is now finding suitable targets. Trump's belicose allowed the Syrians and the Russians to disburse but I don't anyway around that. This has to be an international response, read UK and France, which would result in the exact same kind of forewarning. Attacking factories ain't going to do any good. They're using cholrine which is needed as disinfection agent, ie bleach. Chlorine is not illegal. Weaponizing chlorine is and can be done on base and not at a factory.

I see the only time was to destroy T4 two-three days out max from the chlorine attack to actually hurt the Syrians but then, that would deny gathering the actual intelligence to make a proper assessement of the attack, never mind gathering international support.

[astralis]

so.....was that a red line? hah!

[Mihais]

Which is a good thing.

Now how about actually thinking through all this.First,I some folks here don't like their President,which ain't my concern.The guy's actions are relevant.Hopefully,trolling the Russians and NOT shooting missiles is what he does.
1.WTH does it matter if Assad used chems or not?He allegedly used them before with nothing of relevance happening.Chems did not saved him from defeat nor gave him victory,conventional forces did.Plus Assad has won this round.If one wants to remove him,they better get ready for a different sort of war.

2.What does it matter if US et pals bomb Assad?Assuming every missile is a perfect hit,zero interference from the Russians etc...it is only a scratch for his forces. And it won't go smoothly because intel is never perfect,plus the SAA is already dispersed.

So,why act hysterical?

3.What the heck is the end goal?After 7 years there isn't one tangible and realistic for the ME as a whole and Syria in particular.Unless arming AQ was one.And making a mess of everything.Which serves fundamentally the interests of powers hostile to US.You waste time,money and blood for nothing.

[astralis]

1.WTH does it matter if Assad used chems or not?He allegedly used them before with nothing of relevance happening.Chems did not saved him from defeat nor gave him victory,conventional forces did.Plus Assad has won this round.If one wants to remove him,they better get ready for a different sort of war.

general deterrence against chem usage is worthy. i think we've demonstrated that we're generally fine with people slaughtering other people as long as they do it conventionally. international norms.

it is only a scratch for his forces.

so, if chems did not save him from defeat nor give him victory, why use chems at all?

limited message. US need not kick out Assad nor have an "end goal" to send a limited message.

for that matter the endless round of slaughter isn't necessarily to US disadvantage. Russians have blown considerably more blood in Syria than the US has, ISIS is slaughtered, Hezbollah is bleeding, Assad is bleeding, what's not to like? sucks that the Kurds are bleeding i guess.