Syrian Civil War Developments

[Officer of Engineers]

I do not respect Trump; the man is a lowlife money laundering crook. If he started WWlll I would respect less if that were possible.

Good God, he's one of two people on this planet with 10,000 nukes at his disposal. The other is Putin. If you CANNOT show professionalism respecting that kind of power, then your views are just non-sequittor.

Planes were using it the next day.

They were not targetting the runways. They were targetting delivery assets.

Certainly not but I question your claim that the Israeli's were after drone command there. Do you have proof of this?

How about from the Iranians themselves?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...yria-1.5979943

It helps greatly if you stop speaking out of your garbage and do actual real time reading

First not sure what has got to do with me not wish to see WW3.

Because going after Assad will do exactly that.

Second I seem to recall you saying that Ukraine was also under Moscow's "nuclear umbrella" yet it hasn't stopped us sending them home Cargo 200 trucks.

Don't change the subject. No one is going to nuke the Ukraines.

You really think Moscow would launch nuclear weapons for Assad?

If we go for regieme change? Yes, especially when the Russians have actual active combat assets in the area.

Like I said I don't give a hoot if the Muscovites and Iranians get rid of him themselves. He can go live out his days in Tehran or Moscow.

They won't get rid of him and neither will we, unless accidently meaning he was at the wrong place at the wrong time when our bombs hit but he won't be on a target list. Stop spouting high and mighty crap especially when you're not the one doing the dirty work going after him.

If it had prevented WW2 which cost 50 - 80m lives it would have been cheap but the French should have stopped it at the start; the re-occupation of the Rhineland which was contrary to the Treaties.

Well, the Czechs were not as callous as you are.

[TopHatter]

Good God, he's one of two people on this planet with 10,000 nukes at his disposal. The other is Putin. If you CANNOT show professionalism respecting that kind of power, then your views are just non-sequittor.

Sir, I would submit the notion that respect for the power the Trump wields (like a small child playing with firecrackers) and respect (or not) for the kind of person that Trump is, are two entirely different kinds of things.

One can respect the power of the Office of President while utterly despising the horse's ass that sits in the aforementioned office.

[Officer of Engineers]

Respect and contempt are not mutually exclusive. I have comptempt for Hitler and Stalin but that does not mean that I do not respect what they have done with their power.

In this case, you have to respect Trump precisely because of the power he wields. He maybe a horse's ass but his actions have major consquences. Disrespect that at your peril as Assad is now learning. Trump cannot control his anger and Assad just got him angry.

[snapper]

Good God, he's one of two people on this planet with 10,000 nukes at his disposal. The other is Putin. If you CANNOT show professionalism respecting that kind of power, then your views are just non-sequittor.

Should I also respect Putin then?

They were not targetting the runways. They were targetting delivery assets.

After warning the Muscovites first who did not warn their Assad allies?

How about from the Iranians themselves?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...yria-1.5979943

I can accept that.

Because going after Assad will do exactly that.

Very unlikely in my view. Syria is not crucial to Putin. It is merely an angle. The only thing that really matters to him - or any dictator - is staying in power at home.

Don't change the subject. No one is going to nuke the Ukraines.

Ukraine; not "the Ukraine" or "Ukraines". I am happy to hear your view but if Ukraine was under "Moscow's nuclear umbrella" and they will not nuke us why would start a nuclear war over Assad?

If we go for regieme change? Yes, especially when the Russians have actual active combat assets in the area.

Then perhaps the Muscovites and Iranians should be warned that they need to get rid of Assad.

They won't get rid of him and neither will we, unless accidently meaning he was at the wrong place at the wrong time when our bombs hit but he won't be on a target list. Stop spouting high and mighty crap especially when you're not the one doing the dirty work going after him.

Well yes I am not a Syrian but we have our own war against a common foe so I can sympathise. I knew a guy who went to fight for the Syrian Christians - only met him at his leaving party. Dead I would guess.

Well, the Czechs were not as callous as you are.

It was not a Czech decision - they were prepared to fight. Chamberlain undercut them as do you every time that say international agreements should not necessarily be enforced. It just leads to more. It does not save lives but costs them long term.

[Officer of Engineers]

Should I also respect Putin then?

10,000 nukes don't really care for your respect. You, however, can disrespect it at your peril, not mine.

After warning the Muscovites first who did not warn their Assad allies?

Didn't matter. The targets were stuff that can't be moved.

Very unlikely in my view. Syria is not crucial to Putin. It is merely an angle. The only thing that really matters to him - or any dictator - is staying in power at home.

A direct fight between two nuclear superpowers with 20,000 nuclear warheads between them is not an angle.

Ukraine; not "the Ukraine" or "Ukraines".

Don't care. I will keep using the Ukraines.

I am happy to hear your view but if Ukraine was under "Moscow's nuclear umbrella" and they will not nuke us why would start a nuclear war over Assad?

Because it was not an direct engagement between two nuclear superpowers.

Then perhaps the Muscovites and Iranians should be warned that they need to get rid of Assad.

And their response will be tough cookies.

Well yes I am not a Syrian but we have our own war against a common foe so I can sympathise. I knew a guy who went to fight for the Syrian Christians - only met him at his leaving party. Dead I would guess.

Don't know. Don't care. The Syrian opposition is more interested in fighting each other than they are about fighting Assad.

It was not a Czech decision - they were prepared to fight. Chamberlain undercut them as do you every time that say international agreements should not necessarily be enforced. It just leads to more. It does not save lives but costs them long term.

It was 100% Czech decision. They had the Sudetenland fortified up the ying-yang. There was no way that Britain nor France could come to their aide in time. If it was going to be war, it would be the Czechs alone. The Czechs gave up when they lacked the political support but everyone knew that they would be on their own.

[snapper]

10,000 nukes don't really care for your respect. You, however, can disrespect it at your peril, not mine.

Respecting nuclear weapons is one thing. Respecting a person is another. Trump has done nothing to earn respect but he is not the US, nor is Putin Muscovy.

Didn't matter. The targets were stuff that can't be moved.

What were the targets then? If planes were taking off the next day it seems it was not air control. However whatever the target may have been it clearly did not work to convince the Assad regime to desist from it war crimes.

A direct fight between two nuclear superpowers with 20,000 nuclear warheads between them is not an angle.

Putin is never going to start WW3 over Syria.

Don't care. I will keep using the Ukraines.

Like "Moskals", "krauts" etc... some might consider that disrespectful.

Because it was not an direct engagement between two nuclear superpowers.

And their response will be tough cookies.[/QUOTE]

Well I would make the proposal to Muscovy and Iran to get rid of Assad themselves or...

Don't know. Don't care. The Syrian opposition is more interested in fighting each other than they are about fighting Assad.

Only because we did not stop this long ago - and yea Obama bears guilt on that count too.

It was 100% Czech decision. They had the Sudetenland fortified up the ying-yang. There was no way that Britain nor France could come to their aide in time. If it was going to be war, it would be the Czechs alone. The Czechs gave up when they lacked the political support but everyone knew that they would be on their own.

"The Czechs gave up when they lacked the political support". If Chamberlain had supported them the greater war may have been averted and millions of lives saved.

[Officer of Engineers]

Respecting nuclear weapons is one thing. Respecting a person is another.

Goes to show you're not mature enough to be a real diplomat. A Gorilla maynot be able to do complex mathematics but piss him off at your peril.

Trump has done nothing to earn respect

He won the Election as the underdog and speaks with the voice of the US whether you like it or not.

but he is not the US, nor is Putin Muscovy.

In matters of Foreign Affairs, yes, they are.

What were the targets then?

Is it too hard for you to google the answers or do you have to be spoonfed?

If planes were taking off the next day it seems it was not air control. However whatever the target may have been it clearly did not work to convince the Assad regime to desist from it war crimes.

They ceased chem attacks for several months.

Putin is never going to start WW3 over Syria.

Are you this freaking dense? It's not starting WWIII over Syria. It is 2 nuclear superpowers going head to head anywhere in the world. It's one thing for Syria to fight the US and the Israelis to fight the Russians. It's completely a different thing when two armies can call up nukes for support. There was a reason why we asked the Russians where they were before we bombed their mercs.

Like "Moskals", "krauts" etc... some might consider that disrespectful.

How is it disrespectful? The Ukraines is adjective followed by a noun. It is not deragotory. Your terms, however, ARE DERAGOTORY.

Well I would make the proposal to Muscovy and Iran to get rid of Assad themselves or...

Or what? Goto war against a nuclear superpower?

Only because we did not stop this long ago - and yea Obama bears guilt on that count too.

Oh for freak sakes, this goes back all the way to the Sack of Damascus. In case you have not noticed, Assad's army is bristling with new recruits.

"The Czechs gave up when they lacked the political support". If Chamberlain had supported them the greater war may have been averted and millions of lives saved.

Chamberlain was preparing for war and he used the Sudetenland to buy time. Make no mistake, the Sudetenland was lost one way or the other. The Germans was going to take it. They were going to pay a heavy price for it and it would deny them any future military adventures but it was a foregone conclusion that the Czechs could not hold out. The best they were going to do was to bleed the Germans white.

[SteveDaPirate]

What were the targets then? If planes were taking off the next day it seems it was not air control. However whatever the target may have been it clearly did not work to convince the Assad regime to desist from it war crimes.

Here's a good damage assessment via satellite (pictures from before and 10 hours afterwards) that shows what structures at the airfield were hit. Most of the targets that were hit were actually hit twice, but the runway itself wasn't targeted. Tomahawks with unitary HE warheads are great for destroying structures and equipment, but probably not capable of penetrating and cratering a runway.

More images and damage assessment at the link.



https://www.imagesatintl.com/us-strike-syria/

[TopHatter]

No one is going to nuke the Ukraines.

Sir, a request: Please refer to the people of Ukraine as "Ukrainians". Thank you.

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir, a request: Please refer to the people of Ukraine as "Ukrainians". Thank you.

I was refering to the country, not the people.

[TopHatter]

I was refering to the country, not the people.

Understood, but the name of the nation is simply "Ukraine". Please refer to as such. Thank you.

[Officer of Engineers]

Understood, but the name of the nation is simply "Ukraine". Please refer to as such. Thank you.

Will try but 60 years of habbit is at play.

[SteveDaPirate]

Any idea if the US still maintains TLAMs with sub-munition dispensers or is that role exclusive to air dropped weapons like the JSOW?

How to put a runway out of commission and make it as big of a pain in the ass as possible to fix is probably something OOE can speak to.

From what I understand the French favor rocket powered projectiles to burrow beneath a runway and physically move the slab of concrete out of position so you can't just fill a hole, while the British preferred to use cluster munitions to make lots of little craters and scatter mines that had to be cleared before the holes could be patched. I'm not sure what method the US utilizes.

[Officer of Engineers]

Ideally, you come back 12 hours, no longer than 24, with manned assets and start killing anyone and everyone you see. The first attack is to disable the base, cratering, repair shops, weapons and fuel depots. The 2nd attack, 12-24 hours later is to kill the people who can fix the damage. The reason why you need manned assets is so you can chase down the people running away.

[GVChamp]

snapper,

You want us to play a game of chicken over Syria because "international justice"? Maybe Putin doesn't want to start WWIII over Syria, but I DEFINITELY don't want to start WWIII over Syria. The difference is that Putin has already thrown tens of billions of dollars into Syria, and has a major naval installation there which Russia apparently considers crucial to their defense strategy, including their nuclear defense strategy. I'm betting they'll go just as hard in Syria as they do Ukraine if push comes to shove.

Strategic patience doesn't always yield immediate results but we have a lot to lose, and we have more cards to play than Russia in the long-run (which works to our advantage).