Syrian Civil War Developments

[Versus]

If the Moskva goes up against HMS Defender she's dead.

Why she would do that? Russian sources say that she is there to provide anti aircraft support.

[GVChamp]

Found this one funny.

[Doktor]

The Turks even had tine to call the PM for authorization? This is getting crazier by the minute.

[Mihais]

I call BS.The Turks,who otherwise violate Greek airspace frequently,had all this time.So they say.My bet is they waited to trap a couple of Russkies to show their muscles.The orders were given way before the incident.
On the other hand,the Russians have been busy provoking everyone,everywhere.They sorta asked for it.Both Russians and Turks understand only this sort of language.

The good part is that Turkey won't be trying to make big deals with Russia,now.
Ohh,and I would have loved to be nearby Bibi,to hear him swear Erdogan and enrich my vocabulary.They struggled to keep any S300's away from their borders,only to have S400's deployed.Nice.

[Versus]

I am having a hard time, believing in any official version. The one that floats, for now is that the shooting down of Su-24 is in direct correlation to the oil smuggling and that some highly placed figures are involved in it. In essence this is not about Russia or Muslims or Jihad, this is about 1 billion dollars of revenue that comes from that oil trade. But in order to cover it, it has to be blown out of proportions. Sounds familiar Doc? Wink wink, hypo alpe adria, middle eastern style...

[zraver]

I am having a hard time, believing in any official version. The one that floats, for now is that the shooting down of Su-24 is in direct correlation to the oil smuggling and that some highly placed figures are involved in it. In essence this is not about Russia or Muslims or Jihad, this is about 1 billion dollars of revenue that comes from that oil trade. But in order to cover it, it has to be blown out of proportions. Sounds familiar Doc? Wink wink, hypo alpe adria, middle eastern style...

What really happened- Russia which has claimed the right to act to defend ethnic Russians was bombing ethnic turks so Turkey took a play straight out of Putin's playbook and acted to defend ethnic turks. Putin will talk tough, but he doesn't want an overtwar with Turkey, he'd lose. He can't even bomb Turkey without killing non-Turkish NATO troops since its either the Dutch or Danes right now manning the NATO patriot batteries in Turkey and those batteries block any Russian air campaign. Plus his Mediterranean squadron is a sitting duck to the Turkish navy and air force.

[Mihais]

More than that,a war means a Turkish army in Damascus and another in Baku.

But it won't be a an open war.Now,at least.

[troung]

Shooting down that plane seems to have really showed the Russians.

Russia says 'destroyed' Syria rebels in area where jet brought down
AFP
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-de...74019543.html#
Moscow (AFP) - Russia on Thursday said its forces had wiped out Syrian rebel groups operating in the area where one of its jets was brought down, unleashing a huge bombardment after rescuing a pilot.

"As soon as our pilot was safe, Russian bombers and artillery of the Syrian government forces carried out massive strikes in the indicated area for an extended period," military official Igor Konashenkov told Russian news agencies.

"The terrorists operating in that area and other mysterious groups were destroyed," he said.

Konashenkov added that the Russian strikes helped Syrian ground forces take control of the mountainous area in the north of the Latakia province.

Turkey on Tuesday shot down a Russian jet in northern Syria alleging that it had crossed over into its air space and sparking a war of words with Moscow.

One pilot that parachuted out was later rescued by Russian and Syrian special forces, while a second pilot from the jet and a soldier sent to rescue him were killed by rebels on the ground.

The defence ministry said Thursday that it had deployed its advanced S-400 air defence system at the Russian airbase in Syria to ensure the security of its warplanes, which have been bombing the war-torn country since September 30.

Konashenkov said that over the past three days its jets carried out 134 combat sorties over the war-torn country and struck 449 targets in the Aleppo, Damascus, Idlib, Latakia, Hama, Homs, Raqa and Deir Ezzor provinces.

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-acted-d...172306416.html

Istanbul (AFP) - President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Thursday that Turkey would have acted differently if it had known a warplane its forces downed on the Syrian border was Russian.

He also said that Russian President Vladimir Putin had not answered his call after Tuesday's incident that has seriously damaged ties between two rival players in the Syrian conflict.

"I called Mr Putin but until now he never answered my call," he said

...
"Of course they are lies, they are slander," Erdogan told France 24.

"We have never, never had this kind of commercial relationship with any terror organisation. They have to prove it, and if they can, Tayyip Erdogan will leave office."

Turkey also Thursday summoned the Russian ambassador to Ankara over a violent demonstration outside its embassy in Moscow over the jet downing.

Several hundred young activists on Wednesday hurled stones and eggs at the mission and broke several windows.

The foreign ministry said it wanted to express discontent over the "unacceptable" protest as well as a series of incidents against Turkish companies in Russia.

"We are dismayed that our representatives in Russia and Turkish companies are victims of physical attacks carried out under the pretext of protests," the ministry said in a statement.

[troung]

You may remember the IHH from such movies as the Mavi Marmara incident

Russian airstrikes target aid convoy in northwestern Syrian town of Azaz, 7 killed
http://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-cri...-azaz-7-killed
Photo: Courtesy of Yeni Şafak

At least seven people died, 10 got injured after an apparent airstrike, reportedly by Russian jets, targeted an aid convoy in northwestern Syrian town of Azaz near a border crossing with Turkey on Wednesday.

Footage filmed at a crossing on the Syrian side of the border with Turkey's southern province of Kilis showed lorries burning. The head of the rebel-run border crossing in the same area said separately that air strikes hit a garage for commercial trailers, killing seven lorry drivers.

Anadolu news agency reported that 20 lorries were targeted, which were carrying cement and iron brought from Turkey in a regular procedure.

Speaking to Daily Sabah, Serkan Nergis from the Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH) said that the targeted area is located some 5 kilometers southwest of the Öncüpınar Border Crossing.

Nergis said that IHH has a civil defense unit in Azaz and they helped locals to extinguish the trucks. Trucks were probably carrying aid supplies or commercial materials, Nergis added.

"Our teams helped extinguish the fire... The trucks do not belong to us and there is no information on who bombed them," Mustafa Özbek, an Istanbul-based official from the IHH, told Reuters.

The aid worker who filmed the aftermath initially said it appeared that aid trucks had been targeted.

IHH's civil defense teams are on the ground after Russian warplanes hit an aid truck in Azaz, #Syria. pic.twitter.com/gUfymNNxOU
— Humanitarian Relief (@IHHen) November 25, 2015

Meanwhile, a US official said he was "aware of reports that a convoy of humanitarian relief vehicles was hit by an air strike today in the vicinity of Azaz."

The official noted that no coalition planes had been near the area for the last 24 hours.

"We are continuing to monitor the situation to determine all of the facts behind the incident," he said.

Per a Russian mouthpiece

Russian Jets in Syria Strike 449 Terrorist Targets in Three Days
İ Russian Defense Ministry
Military & Intelligence
19:32 26.11.2015(updated 02:06 27.11.2015) Get short URL

The Russian Aerospace Forces have conducted more than 130 sorties over the past three days and hit 449 terrorist targets in eight Syria's provinces, the Russian Defense Ministry said Thursday.

"On November 23-26, Russian Aerospace Forces' aircraft have conducted 134 sorties, hitting 449 targets in the provinces of Aleppo, Damascus, Idlib, Latakia, Hama, Homs, Raqqa and Deir ez-Zor," Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.

Russian military jets destroyed an ISIL ammunition depot and groups of al-Nusra Front terrorists in Syria, Konashenkov said.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/2015...#ixzz3se1Pptbq

[troung]

Really article 5 material here...

Turkish journalists charged with spying over weapons report
By Selin Girit BBC News, Ankara
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34939916
Image copyright AP
Image caption Can Dundar, the editor-in-chief of newspaper Cumhuriyet (R) and Erdem Gul, the papers Ankara correspondent (L)

Two prominent Turkish journalists have been charged with espionage after alleging that Turkey's secret services sent arms to Islamist rebels in Syria.

Can Dundar, the editor-in-chief of Cumhuriyet daily, and Erdem Gul, the paper's Ankara bureau chief, face life imprisonment if found guilty.

Their report and video footage attracted a political storm in Turkey and a lawsuit filed by the president.

Turkey faces severe criticism over its press freedom record.

The journalists, who deny the allegations against them, reported that trucks belonging to the Turkish intelligence agency MIT were used to carry weapons to Islamist opposition groups in Syria.

Video footage published alongside their report purported to show Turkish police officers intercepting the trucks and discovering crates containing weapons and ammunition.
'Heavy price'

The government claimed that the intelligence trucks were carrying aid to the Turkmen minority in Syria - a Turkic speaking ethnic group.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan personally filed a lawsuit against the newspaper.

"This paper has engaged in acts of espionage. Whoever wrote this story will pay a heavy price for this," Mr Erdogan said on television in May.
Image copyright AP
Image caption President Recep Tayyip Erdogan vowed Mr Dundar would pay a "heavy price" for the report

Both Mr Dundar and Mr Gul are accused of conducting espionage and aiding the Fethullah Gulen movement - which was previously a close ally of Mr Erdogan but is now considered a terrorist organisation by Turkey's government.

"They ask us why we published that story," Mr Dundar said. "The history of journalism is full of such examples as Watergate or Wikileaks that show states would like to keep some facts secret. But it's for common good to bring them to light."

The charges have been heavily criticised by press freedom groups.

"This case will seriously damage Turkey's pledge to carry out EU reforms and the promised standards of fundamental rights and freedoms," said Erol Onderoglu from Reporters Without Borders (RSF).

Turkey ranks 149th amongst the 180 countries in RSF's World Press Freedom Index 2015.

[citanon]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...mepage%2Fstory

BEIRUT — An increasing number of Iranian soldiers and militiamen appear to be dying in Syria’s civil war, and observers credit media from an unexpected country for revealing the trend:

Iran.

A flurry of reports in Iran’s official and semi*official news outlets about the deaths — including funerals and even a eulogy to a fallen general by Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei — have surprised analysts who monitor the country’s tightly controlled media. The reports, they say, indicate that at least 67 Iranians have been killed in Syria since the beginning of October.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...8a6_story.html

MOSCOW — The Kremlin on Friday played down the possibility of a grand coalition with the West to strike the Islamic State in Syria, despite personal visits by French President François Hollande to both Washington and Moscow following a spate of horrific terrorist attacks tied to the terrorist group.

“At the moment, unfortunately, our partners are not ready to work as one coalition,” Dmitry Peskov, President Vladimir Putin’s personal spokesman, told reporters during a conference call on Friday.

Peskov’s comments came less than 24 hours after Putin sounded hopeful notes at a meeting with Hollande in the Kremlin, where he said Russia “was ready to cooperate with the coalition which is led by the United States.”

....

[drhuy]

You may remember the IHH from such movies as the Mavi Marmara incident


Per a Russian mouthpiece

i would appreciate if you can write something more informative than just quote the whole articles.

[Officer of Engineers]

I may be wrong but didn't the US invoke article 5 on 9/11?

No, the rest of NATO did. Jean Chretien made a speech about it in the House of Commons. Washington DC was surprised and appreciative.

[kato]

While the statement came from NATO's side and wasn't requested by the US it still went through all the proper channels, i.e. the North Atlantic Council - which meant it had US approval before it became public (the NAC can only pass such motions with agreement from all members). The statement was then made public in a press conference by NATO SecGen Lord Robertson.

See also http://www.nato.int/docu/pr/2001/p01-124e.htm

[Zinja]

Nope, the F-22 controls who sees who in this game. The transmitter will always send out a signal that goes farther than the faintest return the receiver can hear. The plane (any plane) that can hear the emitter never has to enter detection range of the radar and can sit back and soak up signals while remaining totally invisible.

It works both ways Zraver. Do not assume that Russia cannot do what the US can do. They have been working on countering stealth since the advent of the U2. Anything that flies leaves a signature, we just don't know how much of that Russia can make use of.