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  • #1

    Turkish AF Bombs Smugglers

    These criminal pilots of Turkish Air force who killed 35 women and children in Iraq yesterday by "mistake" IAW the link below some one has to assume their responsibility NATO including. At the time being no more comments but our condolences to the Iraqi families. May God rest thei souls.

    Turkish air strikes kill dozens of villagers near Iraq border | World news | The Guardian
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  • #2
    These criminal pilots of Turkish Air force who killed 35 women and children in Iraq yesterday by "mistake" IAW the link below some one has to assume their responsibility NATO including. At the time being no more comments but our condolences to the Iraqi families. May God rest thei souls.
    Wrong section + flame bait
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    • #3
      It is terrible, but read the whole story - the victims were smuggling contraband along the border - they were mistaken for separtist fighters - tragic. But it wasn't a village that was bombed. Why did these smugglers take their children with them?

      This story belongs in a different section.
      Last edited by USSWisconsin; 30 Dec 11,, 17:20.
      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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      • #4
        Can't really blame the Turks for this one for the reasons Whiskey mentioned.

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        • #5
          The whole and exact story is described objectively in the link of Guardian below. Read it carefully and you will understand.
          The story belong to this section because military pilots do not kill women and children as the these guys did unacceptably committing crime against humanity. As per suggling this is an every day practice in that area of Iraq.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by osplant View Post
            The whole and exact story is described objectively in the link of Guardian below. Read it carefully and you will understand.
            The story belong to this section because military pilots do not kill women and children as the these guys did unacceptably committing crime against humanity. As per suggling this is an every day practice in that area of Iraq.
            I read your link carefully, and reached a different conclusion, unfortunately aerial bombardment is often guilty of injuring and killing civilians, it has been since it was invented. I agree, military pilots do not normally wish to do what occured here. But Air to Ground warfare is not a face to face form of combat, sadly mistakes do happen - and many countries have made them. A pilot does not have the option of questioning their targets, which have been assigned to them before they arrive. These smugglers brought children with them while they were commiting acts that were illegal, I admit smuggling fuel and ciggarettes is trivial, but guerilla warfare isn't, and they were operating in the same war zone as the separatist fighters, were they really unware of this? Why would they risk their kids for diesel and ciggarettes? It is a tragic accident, and the Turkish Air force needs to address this, to review thier tactics. I don't see the criminal intent though - I see a terrible mistake in time of war and war is hell.

            IMO, The Military Aviation section is intended to be about the technical details of aircraft, not politics and criminal acts.

            EDIT: Moderator (AR), thank you for taking care of moving the thread to the best location.
            Last edited by USSWisconsin; 30 Dec 11,, 20:53.
            sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
            If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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            • #7
              From the article...

              In a major embarrassment for Turkey's government, it was forced on Thursday to admit that the dead, originally described by the Turkish army as Kurdish separatist fighters from the banned PKK, were civilians, misidentified by Turkish drones and then bombed on Wednesday evening as they travelled close to the Iraqi border.
              Turkey's military said it was investigating the incident. "Since the area where the group was located was often used by terrorists and a movement towards our border was determined, it was evaluated that the area should be held under fire by air force planes," it said.
              We aren't talking about An-12s dropping bombs on refugee camps here, it appears more a case of a reasonable, though tragic, mistake.
              To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

              Comment

              • #8
                If a flame bait is a provocative message on newsgroup, then a subject that a lot mass medias dealt with and lots newspapers such as VoA and Guardian and BBC have written, this cannot be named flame bait. You do not want to see how the pseudowariors kill civilian kids and women.

                Comment

                • #9
                  No,we don't.What we also don't want to see is ignorants in military matters.BBC,Guardian (in general)and you (in particular)qualify.

                  War is chaos.Mistakes are made because of that.Military mistakes are the costliest of all because they cost lives.The best aren't those that make no mistake,but those that make the fewest.That's a military mantra,of all ages and places.If you don't understand this,no problem.I know a Soviet mantra regarding learning.

                  Btw,said pilots being Turks and you having a Greek flag isn't by chance a reason you're so righteous?;)
                  Those who know don't speak
                  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                  • #10
                    Yes a pilot does not have the option of questioning their targets, but have the obligation to study well the environment around the target and to avoid to hit non- military targets.
                    Their drones located suspected rebels in a warzone, mistakes happen even with other NATO air forces. Like I said this wasn't An-12s rolling cluster bombs out the back over a refugee camp.

                    If a flame bait is a provocative message on newsgroup, then a subject that a lot mass medias dealt with and lots newspapers such as VoA and Guardian and BBC have written, this cannot be named flame bait. You do not want to see how the pseudowariors kill civilian kids and women.
                    These criminal pilots of Turkish Air force
                    Yeah. Flame bait, you could have posted the article without saying that.

                    The Turlkish Air Force has to realize that times are not those of flying together in formations with Lutwaffe, the German Air Force of criminal nazis in the years of 1941-1945. Ask a Turk pilot to tell you when his country declared the war against Nazis, he will not know when the truth is the declared it on February 7, 1945 just one day before Yialta convention while the USA declared it in March of 1942.The Evasive Neutral as a distinguished frank Weber, professor of Yale of yours call them.
                    Ban this guy. Worst Hitler card play ever on WAB.
                    Last edited by troung; 30 Dec 11,, 23:52.
                    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by troung View Post
                      Ban this guy. Worst Hitler card play ever on WAB.
                      He's getting close, especially if all he has to contribute is anti-Turkish flamebait with Nazi comparisons to boot.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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