2023 Israeli-Gazan War

[Officer of Engineers]

Out of curiosity, GS, what's the force protection for this? For Canada, a pontoon bridge gets an ADATS battery.

[Gun Grape]

Because it would be attacked and need replacing ASAP. The enemy has a say on how long it would operate and you need to include how much effort you're going to waste vs how much use you're going to get out of it.

As part of an amphibous assault, if she last 24 hours it more than served its purpose.

Its old school tech, looking for a modern job. We are not/will not land LCACS in Gaza, fly supplies in with MV-22s/Ch-53s so this is the only option we have.

Not going to sink pylons and build a more stable/perminate structure.

That long stable pier will take months to design and a year to build. We need to deliver supplies now.

[Officer of Engineers]

I don't respect that decision making and don't ask me to.

No one is asking you to. It's a take it or leave it position.

It's just throwing sh*t at a wall and hoping for the best.

492 metric tonnes of supplies were delivered. That ain't chump change. The port did its job.

[Albany Rifles]

General or Admiral: "What are our options?"

Military Engineer: "Well we can build this temporary dock. We need to support humanitarian aid for a long period of time most likely but it won't be able to withstand conditions of the Mediterranean pretty long. It might last 2 weeks."

Admiral: "Best we can do and it will allow the administration to get some good headlines for a week. Go for it."

I don't respect that decision making and don't ask me to. It's just throwing sh*t at a wall and hoping for the best.

It was providing a solution...albeit not the greatest....to a problem. You do the best you can.

[rj1]

General or Admiral: "What are our options?"

Military Engineer: "Well we can build this temporary dock. We need to support humanitarian aid for a long period of time most likely but it won't be able to withstand conditions of the Mediterranean pretty long. It might last 2 weeks."

Admiral: "Best we can do and it will allow the administration to get some good headlines for a week. Go for it."

I don't respect that decision making and don't ask me to. It's just throwing sh*t at a wall and hoping for the best.

[Albany Rifles]

I am a mechanical design engineer.

WHY THE HELL DID WE INSTALL A SYSTEM THAT WAS NOT INTENDED NOR DESIGNED TO OPERATE IN THE OPEN SEA AT ITS CURRENT LENGTH?

As with all things military....mission expediency. It was what was available at the time. There are improved designs in the pipeline but haven't reached full program/funding stage yet. The Navy fairly recently dropped this mission and the US Army Transportation Corps has picked it up. It is a bit of back to the future as this was a common task during Vietnam but as we pivoted to the Cold War & Europe in the 1970s/80s, it returned to Navy/USMC and atrophied. At best it was section strapped to the side of an LST which could make a 100 foot causeway.

And the Colonel has also succinctly made the point we were unsure what Hamas would do so it had to be almost throw away.

Though I hate Donald Rumsfeld he was right...you go to war with the Army you have and not the Army you wish you had (though his failure was refusing to mobilize the reserve component which helped give us Abu Ghraib & others).

[Officer of Engineers]

I am a mechanical design engineer.

WHY THE HELL DID WE INSTALL A SYSTEM THAT WAS NOT INTENDED NOR DESIGNED TO OPERATE IN THE OPEN SEA AT ITS CURRENT LENGTH?

Because it would be attacked and need replacing ASAP. The enemy has a say on how long it would operate and you need to include how much effort you're going to waste vs how much use you're going to get out of it.

[rj1]

On another note, the US pier is back in operation today. And to be clear...this structure was not intended nor designed to operate in the open see at its current length. It is intended to build a short causeway to allow vessels to offload. There are additional components which can be added which make it more permanent, but I believe a) they are in reserve component units & b) are earmarked for operations in the Pacific Area of Operations. Keep in mind the US Mulberry harbor off of Omaha Beach was wrecked overnight in a storm...and that was much more robust and had over a year to design & plan.

I am a mechanical design engineer.

WHY THE HELL DID WE INSTALL A SYSTEM THAT WAS NOT INTENDED NOR DESIGNED TO OPERATE IN THE OPEN SEA AT ITS CURRENT LENGTH?

[Albany Rifles]

I think there are mainly northeastern-based Democratic moderates (the group of voters that on this issue Josh Gottheimer represents) that on this issue are solidly Republican in character when it comes to Israel. Not saying they'll necessarily be driven to vote for Trump - be more a leave the presidential race blank or don't vote protest - but I think the "enthusiasm for Biden" factor in general is a weakness of his campaign and it doesn't need more stuff added onto it. (Disclaimer: I'm not voting for either of them.)

Well, speaking as an Northeastern-based Democrat, no matter how strongly we may feel on about Israel...and we have become less enamored these past 6 months by the excesses of the Israeli armed forces...that is nowhere enough to offset the assaults on women's rights, voting access, slaughter of school children at the altar of the 2nd Amendment & infrastructure improvements which are much more important issues to us.

Your overall premise that a continued war can hurt Biden....well, some. But that will be offset by the way the GQP is pushing away moderates and independent voters. We shall see.

On another note, the US pier is back in operation today. And to be clear...this structure was not intended nor designed to operate in the open see at its current length. It is intended to build a short causeway to allow vessels to offload. There are additional components which can be added which make it more permanent, but I believe a) they are in reserve component units & b) are earmarked for operations in the Pacific Area of Operations. Keep in mind the US Mulberry harbor off of Omaha Beach was wrecked overnight in a storm...and that was much more robust and had over a year to design & plan.

U.S. military's stop-start Gaza pier to resume operations, officials say | Reuters

U.S. military's stop-start Gaza pier to resume operations, officials say

By Reuters
June 19, 20247:32 PM EDTUpdated 15 hours ago





A satellite image shows a closer view of U.S. military-run humanitarian aid pier in Gaza before its removal, June 12, 2024. Maxar Technologies/Handout via REUTERS/

WASHINGTON, June 19 (Reuters) - The U.S. military's on-again, off-again floating pier in Gaza is expected to resume operations on Thursday to unload sorely needed humanitarian aid for Palestinians, two U.S. officials told Reuters on Wednesday.
The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the pier had been re-attached to the shore on Wednesday after being temporarily removed last Friday due to poor sea conditions.
Aid began arriving via the U.S.-built pier on May 17, and the U.N. said it transported 137 trucks of aid to warehouses, some 900 metric tons.

But then rough seas damaged the pier, forcing repairs, and poor weather and security considerations have limited the number of days it has been operational.
U.S. President Joe Biden announced in March the plan to put the pier in place for aid deliveries as famine loomed in Gaza, a Hamas-run enclave of 2.3 million people, during the war between Israel and the Palestinian militants.

The U.S. military estimates the pier will cost more than $200 million for the first 90 days and involve about 1,000 service members.

It is unclear how much longer it will be operational.
Speaking at the Pentagon on Tuesday, spokesperson Air Force Major General Patrick Ryder declined to say when the military might halt its pier operations altogether. He said the pier has so far allowed for a total of over 3,500 metric tons of aid to reach Gaza's shores.
"With the caveat that this has always been intended to be a temporary pier, I'm not aware at this point of any established date of: 'This is when we're going to stop,'" he told reporters.
"And again, taking a step back here, the big picture: Whether it be by land, sea or air, (the United States is) employing all avenues to get assistance into Gaza."

[rj1]

Possible I suppose. Netanyahu's desperate to stay in office and this war is the only thing keeping him there. Your theory depends on him being able to extend the war until November which is doable I would guess. However it also depends on the war being a major issue/vote mover for a significant minority of US voters. IMO most of the conservative evangelical types who are wedded to Isreal's cause are in Trump's camp already so it's anyone's guess I would say as to whether your right or not.

Israelis can easily keep this going another 5 months. One cross-border attack they've already gotten 10 out of. That Lebanon is mentioned is "where's our next fight?"

I think there are mainly northeastern-based Democratic moderates (the group of voters that on this issue Josh Gottheimer represents) that on this issue are solidly Republican in character when it comes to Israel. Not saying they'll necessarily be driven to vote for Trump - be more a leave the presidential race blank or don't vote protest - but I think the "enthusiasm for Biden" factor in general is a weakness of his campaign and it doesn't need more stuff added onto it. (Disclaimer: I'm not voting for either of them.)

This war and the Ukraine War I have a sneaking suspicion one of them either ceasefire shortly after November 5th (Biden win) or January 21st (Trump win) next year a la the Iranian Hostage Crisis. It's impossible to remove American domestic politics as part of the driving concerns in either conflict. Israel/Gaza though is more likely than Russia/Ukraine due to the Israel/Gaza conflict is one-sided in nature. This war by Israel has destroyed in my opinion the United States' rules-based order they champion globally because our hypocrisy has been exposed of we wouldn't be fine with this conflict being conducted the exact same if it was done by a country not our close ally, and I think part of the Israeli calculations here clearly is they're just going to do as much as they can get away with as long as they have American cover. Why the hell else are they considering going to Lebanon other than to prolong this? And Biden has allowed himself to get played here by Netanyahu, in part because an election is in 5 months (the American domestic politics mentioned earlier, also why I think Israel ends the war unilaterally post-election because they will have lost their leverage, if Biden wins he has no future reelection concern to worry about and can be honest with Netanyahu without having to worry about it hurting him electorally) and also because Netanyahu knows enough Democrats support Israel here unconditionally they combined with the Republicans would overturn anything the Biden administration attempts to do to limit the conflict.

If it weren't for the Ukraine War and everyone in the West being on board with Russia must lose we'd be in a much worse position geopolitically on this, but I do think the post-Cold War world is dead, gone, and buried, and we're in a new geopolitical era. Reason 1 is Ukraine and Reason 2 is Gaza (minor shoutout to the Nagorno-Karabakh wars and some other non-war geopolitical items that have occurred that would've been not kosher almost all of the past 35 years). There's going to be a de facto annexation of sections of Gaza by Israel a la the Golan Heights whose purpose is to be a defense buffer.

[Monash]

First, the thread title needs updated to account for going into a 2nd calendar year.



Being permanently abandoned. It served a grand total of 10 days at a cost of $230 million, plus whatever costs we incur removing it.

My two cents: if Israel conduct offensive operations in Lebanon, it's Netanyahu's goal in my opinion to ensure Biden loses reelection, because any decision Biden makes he loses votes and it ensures this conflict continues until the election.

Possible I suppose. Netanyahu's desperate to stay in office and this war is the only thing keeping him there. Your theory depends on him being able to extend the war until November which is doable. However it also depends on the war being a major issue/vote mover for a significant minority of US voters. IMO most of the conservative evangelical types who are wedded to Isreal's cause are in Trump's camp already so it's anyone's guess I would say as to whether your right or not.

[rj1]

First, the thread title needs updated to account for going into a 2nd calendar year.

I was kind of wondering why the DoD didn't go with a more 'permanent' structure rather than a floating dock. Nothing fancy just a few piles with some spans bolted on and a road bed off the beach. Something good enough to hold up for a couple of years at most under steady use. The Isrealis would just blow it up once it wasn't being used by the US anyway so its not like it would become a permanent asset for the Gazans.

As I said just wandering out loud since I have zero knowledge of the practicalities, no critism intended.

Being permanently abandoned. It served a grand total of 10 days at a cost of $230 million, plus whatever costs we incur removing it.

My two cents: if Israel conduct offensive operations in Lebanon, it's Netanyahu's goal in my opinion to ensure Biden loses reelection, because any decision Biden makes he loses votes and it ensures this conflict continues until the election.

[Albany Rifles]

I placed it here because I believe the war in Gaza is linked to hostilities in Lebanon-Israeli border. And a reminder that Israel can keep focused on multiple areas at once.


Hezbollah fires most rockets yet in war after Israel kills a top commander | Reuters

Hezbollah fires most rockets yet in war after Israel kills a top commander

By James Mackenzie and Laila Bassam

• Summary

• Abdallah was most senior Hezbollah figure killed since October
• Israel says it killed him in a strike on a command centre
• Hezbollah says it will increase intensity, force of attacks
• Group fires dozens of rockets into Israel

JERUSALEM/BEIRUT, June 12 (Reuters) - Hezbollah fired the most rockets it has launched at Israel in a single day since cross-border hostilities broke out eight months ago, as part of its retaliation on Wednesday for an Israeli strike which killed a senior Hezbollah field commander.
The Iran-backed Hezbollah and Israel have been trading fire since the eruption of the Gaza war in October, in steadily intensifying hostilities that have fuelled concern of a bigger confrontation between the heavily armed adversaries.

The Israeli strike in the south Lebanon village of Jouaiyya late on Tuesday killed three Hezbollah fighters alongside the senior field commander Taleb Abdallah, also known as Abu Taleb, Israel and three security sources in Lebanon said.
He was the most senior Hezbollah commander killed during eight months of hostilities, one of the sources said.
The Israeli military confirmed that it had killed him as well as the three other Hezbollah fighters in a strike on a command and control centre.

The sources in Lebanon said he was Hezbollah's commander for the central region of the southern border strip.
Hezbollah said it carried out at least 17 operations against Israel on Wednesday, including eight in response to what it called the "assassination" by Israel in Jouaiyya.
In one, Hezbollah fighters fired guided missiles at an Israeli military factory. In another, the group said it had attacked Israeli military headquarters in Ein Zeitim and Ami'ad, and an Israeli military air surveillance station in Meron.

A security source said the group fired some 250 rockets at Israel throughout Wednesday, the most in a day in this conflict so far. More than 100 rockets were launched at once, one of the group's biggest barrages since the hostilities began in October.
Speaking at a funeral procession for Abdallah in the Hezbollah-controlled southern suburbs of Beirut, senior Hezbollah official Hashem Safieddine said the group would increase the intensity, force and quantity of its operations against Israel in retaliation for his killing.
"If the enemy is screaming and moaning about what happened to it in northern Palestine, let him prepare himself to cry and wail," Safieddine said.SOUNDING SIRENS










Item 7 of 7 Members of Hezbollah carry the coffin of Taleb Abdallah, also known as Abu Taleb, a senior field commander of Hezbollah who was killed by what security forces say was an Israel strike yesterday night, during his funeral in Beirut's southern suburbs, Lebanon June 12, 2024. REUTERS/Mohamed Azakir
[7/7]Members of Hezbollah carry the coffin of Taleb Abdallah, also known as Abu Taleb, a senior field commander of Hezbollah who was killed by what security forces say was an Israel strike yesterday night, during his funeral in Beirut's southern suburbs, Lebanon June 12, 2024. REUTERS/Mohamed Azakir Purchase Licensing Rights, opens new tab

Sirens sounded in northern Israel.
Israeli jets hit a number of launch sites in southern Lebanon on Wednesday after projectiles were fired towards northern Israel, the military said.
The Israeli military earlier said Hezbollah had fired a barrage of around 50 launches from southern Lebanon into the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights.
In a second announcement, Israel said approximately 90 projectiles were identified crossing from Lebanon, a number of which were intercepted while others fell in several locations in northern Israel, causing fires in a number of areas.
It was not clear if the Israeli statements were referring to two separate launches.
The Israeli military said it fighter jets hit Hezbollah launch sites in two areas in southern Lebanon, while artillery shelled a third location.
It said there had been no casualties on the Israeli side but firefighters were battling fires started by the Hezbollah strikes in various areas.
Abdallah, the Hezbollah commander killed on Tuesday, was senior to Wissam Tawil, a high-level Hezbollah commander killed in an Israeli strike in January, said the sources in Lebanon, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The Palestinian militant group Hamas called Abdallah a great leader, in a statement offering condolences for his death.
The security sources said the four Hezbollah members were likely targeted during a meeting.
Israeli strikes have killed some 300 Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon - more than it lost in 2006, when the sides last fought a major war, according to a Reuters tally which puts the number of civilians killed at around 80. Attacks from Lebanon have killed 18 Israeli soldiers and 10 civilians, Israel says.
The Israeli military says it has killed more than 320 Hezbollah members, including at least 100 targeted after field operatives gathered "precise high-quality intelligence" on them.

[Albany Rifles]

Some, hopefully, good news from Gaza. With the lopsided casualties the Gazans took in the operation to rescue the 4 hostages over the weekend might finally have Netanyahu recognizing it can't go on the way he and the other hardliners want. If he is smart he will also work on the peace deal, treaty and diplomatic recognition from Saudi.

Hamas says it accepts UN-backed Gaza truce plan, US cites 'hopeful sign' | Reuters

Hamas says it accepts UN-backed Gaza truce plan, US cites 'hopeful sign'

By Daphne Psaledakis and Nidal Al-Mughrabi

TEL AVIV/CAIRO, June 11 (Reuters) - Hamas accepts a U.N. resolution backing a plan to end the war with Israel in Gaza and is ready to negotiate details, a senior official of the Palestinian militant group said on Tuesday in what the U.S. Secretary of State called a hopeful sign.
But Qatari and Egyptian mediators have not received formal replies from Hamas or Israel to the U.N.-backed truce proposal, an official close to the talks told Reuters, and both sides suggested on Tuesday the plan fit their clashing goals, raising doubt whether any genuine headway towards a deal had been made.

Discussions also touching on post-war plans for Gaza will continue over the next couple of days, Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in Tel Aviv after talks with Israeli leaders.
Blinken met Israeli officials on Tuesday in a push to end the eight-month-old Israeli air and ground war against Hamas that has devastated Gaza, a day after President Joe Biden's proposal for a truce was approved by the U.N. Security Council.

Ahead of Blinken's trip, Israel and Hamas both repeated hardline positions that have scuttled previous rounds of truce mediation, while Israel has pressed on with assaults in central and southern Gaza, among the bloodiest of the war.
Biden's proposal envisages a ceasefire and phased release of hostages in exchange for Palestinians jailed in Israel, ultimately leading to a permanent end to the war.
On Tuesday, senior Hamas official Sami Abu Zuhri, who is based outside Gaza, said it accepted the ceasefire resolution and was ready to negotiate over the specifics.

This required a formula stipulating the total withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza and a swap of hostages held in Gaza for Palestinians jailed in Israel, he told Reuters.
"The U.S. administration is facing a real test to carry out its commitments in compelling the occupation to immediately end the war in an implementation of the U.N. Security Council resolution," Abu Zuhri said. Blinken said the Hamas statement was "a hopeful sign" but definitive word was still needed from the Hamas leadership inside Israeli-besieged Gaza. "That's what counts, and that's what we don't have yet."

After Blinken left for Jordan, a senior Israeli government official, who asked not to be identified, said the published proposal would enable Israel to achieve its war goals.
The official repeated Israel's longstanding stance that Hamas' military and governing capabilities in Gaza must be annihilated, and all hostages freed with Gaza posing no threat to Israel in the future.The war began when Hamas-led Palestinian militants stormed into southern Israel from Gaza on Oct. 7, killing more than 1,200 people and seizing more than 250 as hostages, according to Israeli tallies. Israel's retaliatory air and ground onslaught in Gaza has killed at least 37,164 Palestinians, the Gaza health ministry said in an update on Tuesday, and reduced most of the narrow, coastal enclave to wasteland, with malnutrition widespread.




Family members and supporters demand the immediate release of the hostages kidnapped during the deadly October 7 attack, as they protest outside a meeting attended by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, amid the ongoing conflict in Gaza between Israel and Hamas, in Tel Aviv, Israel June 11,... Purchase Licensing Rights, opens new tab Read more

The U.S. is Israel's closest ally and biggest arms supplier but, along with much of the world, has become sharply critical of the huge civilian death toll in Gaza and the destruction and humanitarian calamity wrought by the Israeli offensive.
In the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, Palestinians reacted warily to the Security Council vote, fearing it could prove yet another ceasefire initiative that goes nowhere.
"We will believe it only when we see it," said Shaban Abdel-Raouf, 47, a displaced family of five sheltering in the central city of Deir Al-Balah, a frequent target of Israeli firepower.
"When they tell us to pack our belongings and prepare to go back to Gaza City, we will know it is true," he told Reuters via a chat app.

POST-WAR PLANNING 'IMPERATIVE', BLINKEN SAYS

Blinken said his talks were also addressing day-after plans for Gaza, including security, governance, and reconstruction of the enclave. "We've been doing that in consultation with many partners throughout the region. Those conversations will continue...it's imperative that we have these plans," he said.
As part of his eighth trouble-shooting trip to the Middle East since the Gaza conflict ignited, Blinken also sought steps to prevent months of border clashes between Israel and Lebanon's Hezbollah from escalating into a spillover war. On Monday, Blinken had talks in Cairo with President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi of Egypt, a key mediator in the war, in Cairo before proceeding to Israel, where he met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defence Minister Yoav Gallant.
Blinken's consultations in Israel on Tuesday included centrist former military chief Benny Gantz - who resigned from Israel's war cabinet on Sunday over what he said was Netanyahu's failure to outline a plan for ending the conflict.

Blinken, speaking later in the day at a conference in Jordan on the humanitarian response for Gaza, announced $404 million in aid for Palestinians and called on other donors to also step up.
Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi told the gathering on the Dead Sea that nations should force Israel to stop what he called the use of hunger as a weapon and remove obstacles to the distribution of humanitarian aid in Gaza.
Fighting continued with little respite on Tuesday as Israeli forces stepped up strikes on Gaza's southern city of Rafah, skirting the border with Egypt, a day after four soldiers were killed by a blast in a booby-trapped house claimed by Hamas.

Biden has repeatedly declared that ceasefires were close over the past several months, but there has been only one, week-long truce, in November, when over 100 hostages were freed in exchange for about 240 Palestinians held in Israeli jails. Israeli forces rescued four hostages held by Hamas in a commando raid into a crowded urban refugee camp in central Gaza on Saturday during which 274 Palestinians were killed by heavy Israeli firepower, according to Gaza's health authorities.


Reporting by Daphne Psaledakis in Tel Aviv and Nidal al-Mughrabi in Cairo; writing by Mark Heinrich; editing by Angus MacSwan, William Maclean

[Amled]

It’s been said numerous times; both in this thread and elsewhere, that the Gaza War has no good solutions. Only those that are bad, and those that are worse!
In the case in point the IDF apparently chose one of the bad ones. They had intelligence on the location of hostages; bird in the hand so to speak, and chose to liberate them! What else could they have done???
Let them linger in captivity? Risk the chance that they might be killed? How would they ever justify that to their family and friends? “Yes, we knew their location, but the collateral cost would have been too high?”
As said, no good solutions, only bad ones!