Bush and Rumsfeld and all them Neocons should just God-damn Resign!

[Julie]

excuse me? what will be ok?

Just trying to keep my chin up on the "day after." Cheney says Bush now has a Mandate....so everything will be alright now. Just trying to make everyone (including myself) feel more united, instead of divided, that's all. :)

[smilingassassin]

Whooooooooooa. Now, by gosh, we are getting somewhere ! I agree with that. Do tell, please share. :)

There are differences on what we agree on, in addition I disagree with a FEW things rumsfeld has done, you disagree with MOST things hes done. That being said, one of the things I'm conserned about, the disbandment of the Iraqi army, is tempered with lots of pro's and cons. Its a loss of manpower to secure Iraq, but would that manpower be making things worse due to its Bathist elements?

Would we even be having this discussion had the French and Germans entered the war, or if the UN was involved in the postwar reconstruction?

[Fonnicker]

There are differences on what we agree on, in addition I disagree with a FEW things rumsfeld has done, you disagree with MOST things hes done. That being said, one of the things I'm conserned about, the disbandment of the Iraqi army, is tempered with lots of pro's and cons. Its a loss of manpower to secure Iraq, but would that manpower be making things worse due to its Bathist elements?

Would we even be having this discussion had the French and Germans entered the war, or if the UN was involved in the postwar reconstruction?

If the french and germans were involved than it would suggest that there was a UN resolution involved, and at least in my opinion I would be fine with it. I have no problem committing our troops to action. None whatsoever, provided that there is just cause and UN support. As a whole, this country would be better off right now if we hadn't gone in alone. I doubt anyone hear can provide evidence to suggest that Saddam was in a position to pose a threat to our security at the time. We certainly could have used the funds spent in Iraq on the needs of the american people. Regardless the reputation or weaknesses of the UN, we helped to create it and it exists for a purpose. Just my opinion, but what purpose now can the UN hold? Clearly, we have made the statement to the world it doesn't matter to us what the UN says or does. How can we expect any other country to abide my them, friend or foe?

[Officer of Engineers]

Countries have been ignoring the UN since it began its inception, starting with the Korean War with two Asian powers directly challenging its legitimacy.

Soviet-Afghanistan, Iran-Iraq, Tanker War, Rwanda, Somalia to name a few that happenned without UN approval. In fact, the Kosovo War had no UN approval and UNPROFOR had to be replaced by IFOR/SFOR I & II in order to make the whole damned thing worked.

This is not the first time the UN got ignored nor would it be the last. The world moved on and the UN recovered and it will recovered from this.

[Julie]

There are differences on what we agree on, in addition I disagree with a FEW things rumsfeld has done, you disagree with MOST things hes done. That being said, one of the things I'm conserned about, the disbandment of the Iraqi army, is tempered with lots of pro's and cons. Its a loss of manpower to secure Iraq, but would that manpower be making things worse due to its Bathist elements?

Would we even be having this discussion had the French and Germans entered the war, or if the UN was involved in the postwar reconstruction?

I do not recall me going to any great length, on this forum, regarding my disagreements with Rumsfeld, just my general disagreement that there not being enough manpower on the ground in Iraq. I do know there was a "rift" between Rumsfeld and Powell, at the onset of the Iraq invasion, and it is my only GUESS, that it concerned this issue. The disbandment of the Iraqi army was due to, from my understanding, the corruptness from within that put US soldiers at much risk. Therefore, I agree to the disbandment of the Iraqi army on that issue, but was there a US or coalition regiment to take its place when that was done? That, I am unclear on.

Further, immediately after the invasion, humanitarian necessities had to be attended to, i.e., food, water, septic and waste systems, etc. My contention is that had the US allowed the UN to come in and provide these much needed necessities, it would have placed the US in a better situation to maintain ground security, which was a critical issue for the Iraqi people after this invasion. Had this been done more successfully, the support of the Iraqi people would have been greater in resisting the insurgents instead of some aiding them.

My standing is that there are alot more issues in this war invasion than just the fighting itself. Had the US not shunned the countries that did not help the US with the invasion, does not mean they could not have aided tremendously in the post-war. More post-war aid would have been a tremendous help to the US, since it would have furthered our agenda on the ground in a more successful way. A war in that region effects many nations in the area in a negative way, and those effected should be given the opportunity to aid in the stabilization process. I strongly feel that locking out the French and Germans after the US invasion of Iraq, was no better decision-making than the French announcing a Veto at the UN regarding this war. It is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[lulldapull]

oooo, your so intellegent.



just back it up already.



im not your pal. i dont even know you.



first off, thats just incorrect, and you know it. as far as france germany and russia? i dont know maybe thier cushy oil deals had something to do with it? i dont really know what all the political ramifications where, but i unlike you, am not going to pretend i know what france germany and russia where thinking. but the fact that you would believe whatever they said tends to make me wonder about agenda. i certainly didnt believe what they said, just as i certainly took everything bush said with a grain of salt.



you are so foolish, he only regrets that we didnt try harder to get international support, he stiil said that he would not allow the UN to dictate in the end wether or not the US could go to war. your fooling yourself.



sorry you lost me here, as im sure you lost the majority of democrats, because almost all of them say that war with afghanistan was justified. your a party of 1 lull.

AaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhaAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAA

I can just picture lill Donnie sittin at his Computer at home hackin away

Donnie now you remind us all here of a character of Ameer Kiani ( The terror boy) from another forum!! but your'e the exact opposite of him in your allegiances! :) But essentially the same fruit!


Well before we even go in your insolent reponse, let us know that is that your 'guardian Angel" in your avatar???

Be-careful there 'Donnie"....looks like all that Church going is affecting your sensibilities here!........

Is that a hermaphorodite??? or is it me that it appears as a very androgenous yet curvacious 'angel'???

Comeon now Donnie you can tell us what it is.......



P.S. Hey you didn't tell us your age? 16?, isn't that right on the money??

[Julie]

Donnie now you remind us all here of a character of Ameer Kiani ( The terror boy) from another forum!! but your'e the exact opposite of him in your allegiances! :) But essentially the same fruit!

Omg, I hope you are wrong about that lull. Someone was just asking me a couple of weeks back if I had known what ever happened to the little terror.

[lulldapull]

Omg, I hope you are wrong about that lull. Someone was just asking me a couple of weeks back if I had known what ever happened to the little terror.

OHMG didn't you hear what happened to our little 'packi' terror boy???

His daddy shipped his ass back to 'pak-land' so he wont get spoiled ( westernised ) growing up here among us "heathens"!

these god-damn mouzlum types never cease to amaze me! They are very selective in what they choose to pick and adopt from our 'evil' western culture!

So the last reports are that 'terror boy' now sits in some madraasa in Isloo, and pumps cheese with the local (wahabbi) mulla! And the last i heard is that he taches "English" to them budding mulla's in his islamic class, while they teach him about the softer side of 'man-hood'

What a God-damn end tohis carreer! But don't be surprised if his name turns up on CNN in some bizzarre plot to get even with us :)

I heard his daddy was a pretty 'conservative' fundo type (Beardo) in D.C. ( just like these Republicans)!!

[lulldapull]

Reality check for 'Smilling kiddo', and his young buddy 'Donnie'! :) From now on, I'll keep em updated on the developments in iraq on a daily basis, just so they don't lose trackof reality, and go on having wet- dreams in their delusional little fundo world!


6 foreigners abducted in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Nov 3: Six more foreigners were kidnapped and a US soldier died in a roadside bomb in another day of mayhem on Wednesday, as Iraqis tracked the news that George W. Bush has won another term as US president.

The life of an Irish-born woman aid worker hung in the balance after her kidnappers threatened to hand her to a group led by Iraq's most wanted man Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and a senior oil ministry official was shot dead.

The violence came as news broke that Democratic challenger Senator John Kerry conceded the cliff-hanger US presidential election, which has closely focused on Washington's decision to invade Iraq and the chaos that ensued.

Some Iraqi officials, however, welcomed the Bush victory, while Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said he would have happily worked with either candidate.

"We know that Bush has an overall vision for Iraq, he overthrew Saddam Hussein and liberated the country and Ithink he wants to see the job done," said Muwaffaq al-Rubaie, a special adviser to the interim government.

Opinion was more divided on the streets of Baghdad, with Iraq's Shia majority, who suffered the most under Saddam, cheering the outcome, while many Sunni Muslims groaned in dismay. A wave of violence that followed last year's US-led invasion claimed more victims on Wednesday.

Five Jordanians, most of them truck drivers, were reported kidnapped, while a US-Lebanese contractor was captured at gunpoint from an upmarket district in Baghdad and Al-Qaeda-linked militants posted a website video showing the beheading of a man they said was a senior Iraqi army officer.

One US soldier was killed and another wounded when a roadside bomb hit an army patrol southeast of the capital, bringing to 1,117 the number of US military personnel killed in Iraq since the war, according to a Pentagon tally.

At least nine people were also injured in another car bombing on the main road to Baghdad airport.-AFP

[Donnie]

Well before we even go in your insolent reponse, let us know that is that your 'guardian Angel" in your avatar???

no, its a female fairy, a painting i did for my wife, did you like it? you can find the larger version on web site,as well as many other paintings of mine, hey maybe i picked up a new fan?

Be-careful there 'Donnie"....looks like all that Church going is affecting your sensibilities here!........

Is that a hermaphorodite??? or is it me that it appears as a very androgenous yet curvacious 'angel'???

you cant actualy adress my response, so you attack my artwork? last i heard they dont allow fairys in church :)

Comeon now Donnie you can tell us what it is.......

interesting, you still havent adress my post, all you can do is try to insult me, very childish, as i said before it is a fairy i painted for my wife.

P.S. Hey you didn't tell us your age? 16?, isn't that right on the money??

if you have really have read any of my post you would know im married with 3 children, my oldest is 5. what is your obsession with my age? are you flirting? anyway im over 30.

and here i am at the end of your little rant, and all you managed to do was try to attack me personaly instead of adressing my post. your a sad little man.

[lulldapull]

no, its a female fairy, a painting i did for my wife, did you like it? you can find the larger version on web site,as well as many other paintings of mine, hey maybe i picked up a new fan?



you cant actualy adress my response, so you attack my artwork? last i heard they dont allow fairys in church :)



interesting, you still havent adress my post, all you can do is try to insult me, very childish, as i said before it is a fairy i painted for my wife.



if you have really have read any of my post you would know im married with 3 children, my oldest is 5. what is your obsession with my age? are you flirting? anyway im over 30.

and here i am at the end of your little rant, and all you managed to do was try to attack me personaly instead of adressing my post. your a sad little man.

For our buddy 'Donnnie' apparently the chronological age does not correspond wel with mental age!

Donnie don't kid yourself buddy, my reponse is up above! Read up! Kerry wanted out of Iraq! Democrats were not interested i invasion of Iraq! Kerry has repeatedly said publicly that he would have given the UN more of a chance, and even if that didn't work he would not have put or soldiers in harms way.

now with your bible bigot for a president ( Someone I am personally ashamed to call my president ) is having a field day because ppl like you, yes you pal, the rural, un-educated and republican under-belly of America are dying every day, and no one gives a rats ass about it. :)

Hey Donnie, keep that in mind , I will keep this thread alive and well until the day Bush pulls out of Iraq! :) and then I willa sk you... was it worth it?

[smilingassassin]

For our buddy 'Donnnie' apparently the chronological age does not correspond wel with mental age!

Donnie don't kid yourself buddy, my reponse is up above! Read up! Kerry wanted out of Iraq! Democrats were not interested i invasion of Iraq! Kerry has repeatedly said publicly that he would have given the UN more of a chance, and even if that didn't work he would not have put or soldiers in harms way.

now with your bible bigot for a president ( Someone I am personally ashamed to call my president ) is having a field day because ppl like you, yes you pal, the rural, un-educated and republican under-belly of America are dying every day, and no one gives a rats ass about it. :)

Hey Donnie, keep that in mind , I will keep this thread alive and well until the day Bush pulls out of Iraq! :) and then I willa sk you... was it worth it?

Lull you should take your own advice and read up, and I don't no how many more times you need to be asked to tone down the racial slurs and swearing before you acctually use common sence and comply. Maybe you should join some islamic site and preach there....

[Donnie]

For our buddy 'Donnnie' apparently the chronological age does not correspond wel with mental age! :biggrin

and im somehow supposed to take you serriously?

Donnie don't kid yourself buddy, my reponse is up above! Read up! Kerry wanted out of Iraq! Democrats were not interested i invasion of Iraq! Kerry has repeatedly said publicly that he would have given the UN more of a chance, and even if that didn't work he would not have put or soldiers in harms way.

all i ask is for you to back it up, show me where he said, hell i didnt even say he didnt say, i just asked you to back it, or maybe you would just rather make personal insults than have an intellegent conversation.

is having a field day because ppl like you, yes you pal, the rural, un-educated and republican under-belly of America are dying every day, and no one gives a rats ass about it. :)

first off, not your pal, second i live in a city, third i have a degree, forth im not a republican, fifth i do give a rats ass, i just disagree with you on wether or not kerry would pull out troops in iraq, i have never heard him quoted as saying he would pull out the troops, not anywhere near imedeiatly

why you feel the need to make personal insults escapes me, maybe you can explain.

[lulldapull]

Lull you should take your own advice and read up, and I don't no how many more times you need to be asked to tone down the racial slurs and swearing before you acctually use common sence and comply. Maybe you should join some islamic site and preach there....

Oh.... Now lets see, Being an American and expresing my opposition to an illegal war in Iraq ( A war of aggression) somehow automatically constitutes me joining some Islamic site?

You'r a joker Smilling kiddo!

[Donnie]

Oh.... Now lets see, Being an American and expresing my opposition ...........:

maybe if you did it without the racial slurs and personal insults?